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Developer => Technical => Topic started by: bobusdoleus on January 13, 2011, 05:49:48 PM



Title: Engine for Graphical Roguelike (w/Concept Art)
Post by: bobusdoleus on January 13, 2011, 05:49:48 PM
Hello! So I am in the beginning stages of a graphical partially-rogue-like project, I am currently making mock-ups. For example, here is a screen of the rogue-like component of the game:
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_C1tMPfN8FHM/TSV-Ci7JMXI/AAAAAAAAAgQ/iPesCPKqqOk/AIRogueLikeInterface1.9.png)
I'm still making mock-ups for other screens and finalizing some design issues, but I'm looking at engines. All of the gameplay is tile-based or menu-driven, so things like real-time-collision-detection aren't high priority. I've been looking at flixel and FlashPunk, but flash isn't a requirement. I could do java, actionscript, c++, other OO language, in vague order of preference. Any recommendations?


Title: Re: Engine for Graphical Roguelike (w/Concept Art)
Post by: frekir on January 13, 2011, 06:32:41 PM
Choose one you know, it doesn't really matter in the end. Looks like you are off to a great start.

Have you looked at the Rogue Basin-wiki? There's alot of great information there.

How to write a roguelike in 15 steps (http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=How_to_Write_a_Roguelike_in_15_Steps)
Which programming language are roguelikes generally made in? (http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Roguelike_Dev_FAQ#Which_programming_language_are_roguelikes_generally_made_in.3F)
List of useful articles (http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Articles)


Title: Re: Engine for Graphical Roguelike (w/Concept Art)
Post by: bobusdoleus on January 13, 2011, 06:56:54 PM
I recognize that Rogue Basin is a wealth of information on rogue-like development, and I intend to use many of its algorithms to solve problems such as dungeon generation, sight range, path-finding, etc. My concern is that rogue-like development there assumes an ascii interface (or tileset-enabled interface that is still entirely grid-based), and I want a spiffy mouse-and-menu interface instead, possibly with other neat graphical features as I can find them, as is implied by the mock-up art. Basically, while I sort of know where to look for back-end rogue-like algorithm things, I am looking for an engine that will let me run a tile-based game without too much difficulty while also letting me have non-tile sprite graphics.


Title: Re: Engine for Graphical Roguelike (w/Concept Art)
Post by: bobusdoleus on January 14, 2011, 12:07:49 AM
Well yes, but I'm not very good at the front-end codey bit, drawing things on the screen and all that. And I know I can't do any neat graphical effects except actual 2d art from scratch. So a good set of java libraries, or an engine, is what I'm looking for, no? I mean, I'm not looking for real-time collision assessment for thousands of objects, but like... smooth camera panning, some animation maybe, maybe some particle effects, I'd like the capability to make the game look modern. So I guess tools to build a cool GUI? Like, I have some art mockups, I'll have more mockups, I presumably know how to code the back end, or know where to find out, rogue-like-wise, but I don't really know the coding for GUIs or engines, in that I could if I knew which apis/libraries/things I should be learning. Like, I'm pretty sure I shouldn't be using java swing for this.


Title: Re: Engine for Graphical Roguelike (w/Concept Art)
Post by: ASnogarD on January 14, 2011, 12:24:30 AM
While I cant advise you on a suitable engine, I thought you may appreciate some feedback on that mock up.
I am no qualified experienced designer myself here but my first impresision was :
" That picture is way too busy ! "

I mean it has too many elements on screen all demanding your attention, which in my opinion detracts from the main element... the action that is going on in the main screen, or simply put... the game.

The usual trick is to hide information that is not always needed ( usually stats or descriptive information, stuff the player can take thier time going through if they want to ), and have buttons that will bring up the hidden information so the player can select when they want to view it.

Its just an opinion though, its also looks good...especially that glass redlight effect you have there, its just my opinion you have too many good looking elements in one screen  ;)


Title: Re: Engine for Graphical Roguelike (w/Concept Art)
Post by: bobusdoleus on January 14, 2011, 12:56:34 AM
Thanks for the feedback.
I've considered the issue some when I was making the thing, and there's a mitigating element in that it's supposed to be a full screen 800x600 thing, so you actually get more breathing room then it looks like. It would be pretty horrible as a small window flash game thing, yes.
Also, I'm not going for immersion in the same way a first-person-shooter or atmospheric platformer might. In this game you are an AI that's hacking things, so it's sort of a simulation of someone using an interface, or something. Kind of like uplink in that way.
That said, it might still be too cluttered.
But yes, this isn't exactly a final design, so I'm definitely still taking critiques.


Title: Re: Engine for Graphical Roguelike (w/Concept Art)
Post by: Triplefox on January 14, 2011, 01:26:32 AM
To do a really slick game UI, you're still basically on your own. Everyone wants to put together a different look+feel for their game, and that's fundamentally a different problem from the low-level stuff like drawing tiles and sprites. One can be largely reused or at least customized, the other you have to set your own goals for(and no it doesn't have to be complicated). Most indie games totally suck on this front and do the bare minimum of UI, so in a sense you're already well on your way. But you also sound uncomfortable with the basic 2D engine features, so maybe you should break to do some learning first on what can be done with Slick or Flixel or whatever. You can prototype the game in text mode (or fake text mode inside your chosen engine) simultaneously and then combine it all later, after you've learned the "real" specification for the graphics.

I will say that the most straightforward way to do arbitrary bits of UI is probably to work with Flash IDE. That thing is designed for mixing animations with a tiny bit of code. But the bulk of the game code you'd still want to do outside of the IDE, and you'd still have to make the main game code "play nice" with the way Flash does things(MVC pattern etc.). So it's no silver bullet.


Title: Re: Engine for Graphical Roguelike (w/Concept Art)
Post by: DecapitatedOrk on January 14, 2011, 07:33:58 AM
Hi there, I'm also working on a roguelike (Well, inspired is more appropriate.) I'm currently using Python with NumPy and the Scirra Construct Engine. I did some parallel development between, that XNA and AS3, and I found that the product of my current choice had far less bugs, and returned far better production value for the time I put in as opposed to the other two choices. Granted, this is only my own expirience so it's relative to how I did it, but I still attempted to follow through the basics steps in the same order on each platform. (I.E. Construct Class/ID Bank -> Create Basic Menu -> Create player movement and basic interactions, ect)


Title: Re: Engine for Graphical Roguelike (w/Concept Art)
Post by: bobusdoleus on January 14, 2011, 09:41:15 AM
I definitely intend to do a lot of learning, in particular GUI-related learning; the problem was more what I should be learning to get close to what I'm trying to get. For example, spending a lot of time getting fluent with java swing wouldn't be helpful. I'm perfectly willing to learn 2d engine features, I'd just hate getting boxed into an engine that, for example, can't handle grids/tiles for some reason, or can't handle non-grid/non-tile menus, or something, and then have to go learn a totally different set of engine features.

Thanks for the recommendations. I've worked with flash IDE before, and can do so again, I'm just checking for if there isn't something I should be doing instead. I don't have any experience with python, but I'll take a look at the scirra/python combo, might be worth it. while I guess simultaneously learning flixel's capabilities?


Title: Re: Engine for Graphical Roguelike (w/Concept Art)
Post by: Fallsburg on January 14, 2011, 10:26:57 AM
Well, I like flixel and its tilemaps would be good for your needs.
My other thoughts are:
a) Drop the red on black.  It's a bad color combination.
b) Love the idea of a Gibsonian Hacker Roguelike. Love it so much that I created a very similar game myself (it's not a roguelike, but is heavily roguelike inspired [permadeath, random dungeon generation]).
c) It's a shame that the name Nethack is already taken, because I feel that would be a great name for a Roguelike with this theme.


Title: Re: Engine for Graphical Roguelike (w/Concept Art)
Post by: bobusdoleus on January 14, 2011, 02:59:47 PM
Heh, yes, gibsonesque hacking is severely underdone in games. I've been looking for games like this for a loooong long time.
I'm actually thinking of a more ambitious design for the final game, though not much harder to implement. A mix of uplink, decker, Endgame: Singularity, Disgaea, and a roguelike. Basically doing the whole loot-whore thing with modular 'equipment,' procedurally generated dungeons on demand, and a running total of things like money and skill points. With an in-depth crafting system. Teaser design doc summary here:
https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1ym6pqbJ96ix58NCEleVhGECGKGPPx35tCsIOSwvmAtQ
I'm a big fan of grinding/loot gameplay and procedural content. Decker is a game I fondly remember and still play sometimes.