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Hey there, game devs of the world! As a senior in an American highschool who's pursuing the IB diploma, I hear good things about the Finnish secondary education system. But so far, all the stuff I've read was decidedly second-hand. I'm wondering if there's any Finns out there who'd share their experiences growing up in a Finnish school system.  :gentleman:

Pinkie promise this isn't for a school assignment. Just satisfying my curiosity.

Cheers!

Well, I'm currently in Finnish university so what do you want to know?

I studied electrical engineering for 2 years in a vocational institute.

As Tumetsu requested, you could be a bit more specific as to what you wish to know. The Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Finland) should cover the basics.

Oh hey awesome! Yes of course, I do have a few particular points I'm interested in discussing. I wanted to ascertain whether there's any Finns hanging out here. Thank you for responding, Tumetsu. Hello again Core XII! It's been a long time. :)

These questions are directed to the two of you, and to any other Finns here who haven't responded yet.

Did you grow up in Finland or did you move to Finland to attend university?

As a culture, how do the Finns look upon personal achievement or differences? Did you guys have the option of taking Advanced Placement / International Baccalaureate classes? Do you celebrate talent in your schools? Do you feel like there are any social barriers between rich folks and poor folks in schools? Do you have programs to catch the people who fall behind? Do you help special needs students? What sort of racial, cultural, and social make up did you see among students in your school? E.g. I attend an American public school, and we're 60% black, 15% minority, and 25% white.

What are your personal impressions about the Finnish education system, esp. the pre-university years? What did you like about it and what would you rather change?

I mean no offense with these questions. I was born in Russia, I've moved to the USA when I was 10, and I've had the pleasure of speaking with people from all over the world. There really are significant culture differences between various countries, despite whatever impressions of homogeny  "political correctness" tried to instill in our minds. I'm trying to understand them in the most direct way possible.

I recognize your e-mail, where do I know you from? That... other community from way back, the Game Maker -oriented one? And, by the way, it's Xii. As in a name, not roman numerals.

Did you grow up in Finland or did you move to Finland to attend university?
I was born here, as most Finns are.

As a culture, how do the Finns look upon personal achievement or differences?
I think most Finns aspire for a family, house, job and eventually retirement. My father and his father both built their own houses. I don't really identify with most Finns so I'm no authoritative source on this. In my experience Finns of past generations are highly intolerant of differences (and once they arise, life-time feuds can occur). Younger ones that grew up on the Internet have seen the world more and are consequently tolerant.

Do you celebrate talent in your schools?
At least up to high school the atmosphere is more that of berating failure than celebrating success. If you're not the average person the system was designed for you get problems. Sit quietly, memorize, score well. And if you do score well, you may get ire from the other students that don't care for school. One teacher per thirty students leaves little room for questions, tutoring or debate. That said, there are private schools with different paradigms. My sister is in a special kind of school where they learn things differently, by doing and experimenting rather than memorizing for a test then forgetting afterward. I didn't go to one because you had to reserve a spot even before you were pregnant.

Do you feel like there are any social barriers between rich folks and poor folks in schools?
Schools have free lunch, so the only manifestation comes in who has the coolest toys. But in a technological society, everyone has gadgets. So no, I don't think that.

Do you have programs to catch the people who fall behind?
Yes. I was in a few myself. First of all in grade school I got put into a special class because I always questioned and argued with the teacher. Unfortunately, all the bullies and otherwise challenged are put in the same group, so I got beat up and it wasn't fun. But the class was smaller and slower, leaving more time and attention per student. Second, I was failing my Swedish which threatened my graduation from high school. The Swedish teacher tutored me personally and I managed to pass, barely.

Do you help special needs students?
See above. They try, but I wouldn't say they succeed, not in public school anyway. Private schools specifically for special people is another matter altogether. In vocational I was so largely ahead of the class (some/most people go to vocational because they couldn't get anywhere else so the atmosphere is lazy and unintelligent) that they put me in an adult program instead that was shorter. The classes were sparse and in the evening, and the tests were few and based on actually demonstrating skills as opposed to writing down memorized knowledge on a piece of paper. Since it was for adults, students were trusted to be responsible, unlike in vocational.

What sort of racial, cultural, and social make up did you see among students in your school? E.g. I attend an American public school, and we're 60% black, 15% minority, and 25% white.
It's 90% Finnish with the odd foreigner thrown in.

What are your personal impressions about the Finnish education system, esp. the pre-university years? What did you like about it and what would you rather change?
Personal impressions are what I've based most of my answers on so far. I'm quite exceptional in the system and it clearly didn't accommodate me very well. I've had my thoughts about improving it but I design games, not schools.

I've attended over a dozen different schools due to moving around a lot, so I like to think I've sampled most of it.

Did you grow up in Finland or did you move to Finland to attend university?
I was born in Finland.

As a culture, how do the Finns look upon personal achievement or differences?
Pretty much what Core Xii said. I think that Finns appreciate (perhaps too much) work and achievements, at least the older generation which has led to some burn outs and what not. Generally speaking it is expected that everyone should achieve some kind of career and "good" work. Differences is like Core Xii said, older generation isn't that lenient and while younger gen isn't so much, there is also strong prejudices against foreigners etc.

Do you celebrate talent in your schools?
I'm not sure what you mean by this, but from my experience not really except a couple of diplomas given at each spring to few of the students who scored well etc. But other than that everyone are generally treated equally. Though I haven't really seen either extreme since I always was somewhat good in school but not an exceptionally smart.

Do you feel like there are any social barriers between rich folks and poor folks in schools?
No, not really. Even universities are free. Haven't even seen anything like that in social circles though I guess it might be possible but in small scale.

Do you have programs to catch the people who fall behind?
Yes, though I never had to use any of them.

Do you help special needs students?
I think so though again not much of personal experience.

What sort of racial, cultural, and social make up did you see among students in your school? E.g. I attend an American public school, and we're 60% black, 15% minority, and 25% white.
Other than 2-3 exchange students in highschool rest were Finns.

What are your personal impressions about the Finnish education system, esp. the pre-university years? What did you like about it and what would you rather change?
I think that it works rather well giving the basic information one needs and is overall rather good. However, there is some problems with student motivation etc.

This doesn't sound like just curiosity. :P

You poor bastard.

Yeah, I sympathize...

Do you think the Finnish education system is responsible at all for the alarmingly high suicide rate?

guns don't kill people. the finnish educational system kills people