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Does anyone know of any good, party RPGs that offer good customization? I've been assembling a list, and it's... kinda small. Perusing the list, you might get the idea I'm talking about.

- Pokemon : You can name your 'party members', choose their move-sets, and evolve them in various ways. One of the best, and most customizable, RPGs out there. Simple, though.

       - (Sub-class) Pokemon Mystery Dungeon : Similar, but with much more fun game-play, in my opinion.

- Might & Magic : Lots of ways to customize your starting party; you get classes, races, set-ups, etc. One of the better options I've found; I love how many party members you can make, of all sorts.

- Etrian Odyssey : Similar to M&M, but it has a much cooler skill system from what I've played; too bad that grinding and difficulty was heinous. I got bored two floors in.

- Roguelikes (Dungeon Crawl, Nethack...) : Very fun, VERY customizable; difficulty can sometimes be odd, though, and I've never found a rogue-like with a PARTY, which is an important part of my quest.

- Most early PC RPGs : From what I've gathered, most PC RPGs were like M&M and such, in the beginning. I wish I had been around, then.

Do you guys know of any more?

The FF Tactics games? You can create units, change jobs, etc.

Ah yeah, I forgot about those! I always found the calculations for stat gains and stuff a little... over my head, but man, the Advance and A2 ones were fun! I never got to play the original, sadly.

PS:

Hosnap. (http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/might_and_magic_6_limited_edition)

Cladun even lets you make your player sprite..

I've heard of Cladun! Isn't that an A-RPG? It actually sounds really fun.

ALSO ALSO: Abandonia (http://www.abandonia.com/en) has lots of awesome old PC rpgs. I just downloaded Bard's Tale 1 (http://www.abandonia.com/en/games/929/Bards+Tale+-+Tales+of+the+Unknown%2C+The.html), 2 (http://www.abandonia.com/en/games/930/Bards+Tale+II+-+The+Destiny+Knight%2C+The.html), and 3 (http://www.abandonia.com/en/games/931/Bards+Tale+III+-+Thief+of+Fate%2C+The.html)!  :-*

Fire Emblem?

I reckon you have to be into slow, deliberate exploration to appreciate that kinda thing. Oh and it's actually much closer to Wizardry and Bard's Tale.

Wizardry in particular made a huge cultural impact in Japan because it introduced a lot of Japanese gamers to the concept of RPGs (D&D either didn't exist or wasn't very popular there). That's also why JRPGs are so different from WRPGs. WRPGs (used to) strive for becoming digital versions of D&D and similar games, whereas Japanese devs use Wizardry as their main point of reference. Hell, even most modern JRPGs still copy its battle system verbatim.
[/cool story bro]

On the subject of Might and Magic, I wanted to point out that you can buy the first six Might and Magic games in a super-pack from www.gog.com for $10.  It's really an amazing deal as they're all quality party-based games.  GOG has some other classic RPGs with good party systems too... Betrayal at Krondor has pre-set characters but you can customize their skills quite a bit as you play, the Icewind Dale games were full-on party-based Dungeons and Dragons games, and there are several others I've never tried (or even heard of in some cases) like the Ishar games.

On the indie front, I would suggest taking a look at the RPGs made by Spiderweb Software, particularly the Avernum series and Nethergate: Resurrection.  The official feelings of TIGSource members on these games is mixed, as the games in the series are really quite similar to one another, but I enjoyed them quite a bit.  They definitely have old-school party customization and gameplay style, and strong storytelling for the most part.  Also, they all have huge demos you can try for free, in classic shareware style.

Spiderweb just released a new game that I haven't tried yet, but I think it's more of a single-character game where you recruit other pre-made party members, in the vein of a Bioware RPG.  Might be worth looking at too though.  It's called Avadon: The Black Fortress.

Another indie that was made freeware not too long ago is The Spirit Engine 2.  I have not tried this one (although I did play the first game for a little bit) but I think it has decent party customization.

I'm sure there are some other games I'm forgetting to suggest.  Anyone else know of good party-based RPGs, indie and otherwise?

Disgaea to an extent. Also Zettai Hero Project.

Back on topic:

Monster Hunter
No traditional experience levels, equipment is solely responsible for character stats. Lots of different possible builds.

Demon's Souls
Extremely "free-form" character development. No fixed classes. You're often required to change your equipment based on situation.

Bethesda Softworks' RPGs
As freeform as Demon's Souls, but much less balanced.

Diablo II
Skill trees.

Fallout 1&2
Character stats matter outside of combat and can significantly change the way the game plays. The customization in those games is particularly meaningful because it's nearly impossible to turn your character into a "master of all trades" like you can in Fallout 3 or the Elder Scrolls series. You'll be stuck with your starting stats for most of the game.

Deus Ex, Vampire: Bloodlines
Some of what I wrote about Fallout character stats applies to these games too. In addition, dialog choices matter a lot. "Interactive storytelling" hasn't been done better than those two games, to my knowledge.

Shin Megami Tensei series
Like Pokemon (SMT is actually older than Pokermans but you get the point), except you don't usually keep one of your party members (demons) around for very long. You're constantly "fusing" them with other demons to create new demons that inherit some of the skills of the old ones.

Icewind Dale - similar to Baldur's Gate in the setting, engine, controls, graphics and the RPG system (AD&D), but very dungeon-crawly and almost entirely combat focused. Also, unlike in BG, you create the whole party at the beginning.

A note: I was asking for customizable RPGs with parties, but whatevs, these are also cool suggestions. Also, I think all 'mon games are assumed to be like this; DQM would have been on the list, but I thought Pokemon covered the same general themes.

I've heard a lot of good things about Icewind Dale.

ALSO: I'm a more fast-paced RPG guy.

Robotrek for the SNES is a good one. You start with one robot, but eventually can get a total of 3. It's a bit like pokemon in that respect and the robots look like Pokeballs when they unfurl.

You get sliders for picking your stats, and can wind up with some weird things if you try putting all your points in one or two stats. Items and weapons are acquired via an upgrade system with a lot of trial and error, so it's normal for you to stumble upon some high level items that you have NO IDEA how to use (like a high level hammer will require a sword user to make up some new combos on the spot to be the least bit effective). You can also program combos to perform, which can result in anything from a simple one-two punch to secret attacks that combine your weapons and have special hidden animations.

Plus it's a great game with a cool plot and some cute humor. I highly recommend it.

The Icewind Dale games haven't aged too well, but they're definitely the most actiony of the Infinity Engine games. If you get the first IWD, make sure you get both the expansion packs to go with it (the larger and better one is completely free).

I also can't recommend any Bethesda games at all :nono: Morrowind atleast has an interesting setting but it's still very dry and boring.

The GBA version of Eye of the Beholder was pretty good, I didn't play the original but they made a new combat system for the GBA one that was more tactical (overhead view and all). I did, however, get bored of it not too many hours in, and I sunk a good 45 hours in to EO3.

Dungeon Monkey Unlimited. Plays like a roguelike where you have full customization of your party members. Class, stats, appearance of their sprites, and the weapon they wield.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/dmonkey/ (http://sourceforge.net/projects/dmonkey/)

As was probably mentioned, the SMT games offer ridiculous amounts of customization and are worth a look. I'd recommend Nocturne, if you've got access to a ps2.

So many good games for PS2. I have to get one someday.

this really depends by what is meant by customization -- i'd say the majority of rpgs allow customization in terms of which classes are on your party, either by creating the characters, by choosing which of a set of characters are on your party, or by class changing.

for instance, final fantasy 1 allowed you to select the classes in your party, unlike any other final fantasy game (unless you count class changing, in which case you'd also include ff5, ffx-2, and ff12). final fantasy legend series also let you make your party. same thing with dragon warrior 3 (unlike any other dragon warrior game, again unless you count class changing -- dragon quest 7 and above have class changing.) classic 'dungeon crawlers' also all allowed you to select your party make-up: bard's tale series, wizardry series, ultima series, etc. etc.

there are also a ton of games where characters are specific classes, but which characters join you depends on which you want to recruit -- star ocean 2, baldur's gate, etc. etc., all worked like that. it's pretty common. there's also those that have a large set of characters and which of those set are on your party at any particular time is up to you (suikoden, chrono trigger, final fantasy 6, etc. etc.)

so i'm really not sure what you mean by " I've been assembling a list, and it's... kinda small." -- i think there are probably more rpgs that let you customize your party than there are rpgs which don't.

I mean full-on customization. Being able to change name, class, race (if present)... selecting skills and applying stats is also awesome, too.

The examples given were chosen because they allowed you to name your characters, choose their class, etc.; also note that most start with a full party.

Old PC RPGs, Etrian Odyssey, those are the kinds of things I'm going for here. Full on customization.

Call of Dutys 4-7

Dragon Age: Origins? You can't change your companions' physique or base class, though you can customize their equipment, skills and specializations (sub-class).

Does Dwarf Fortress count? You get to fully customize 7 dwarfs and embark on a fortress-building adventure :P

Dwarf Fortress is pretty much this, yeah. Just as an RTS. (or TBS).

I should really learn how to play DF someday.

I think the Geneforge series is pretty well up there. You recreate your party a lot and have to fiddle with each creation's stats each time. Lots of different choices for what kind of party makeup you have.

Spirit of the Century
Call of Cthulhu
Dogs in the Vineyard
Legends of Anglerre
Pathfinder

I'd say Realms of Arkania, however given that I had to look up what it's actually called outside of german speaking countries (it's the "Das schwarze Auge" over there), makes me think it never got quite popular on an international market. Maybe the followup game 'Drakensang' got more recognition?
Anyways, it allows you full customization of your party from name/class/race/portrait and is based on the vast background of the "Das schwarze Auge" Pen and Paper Series, kinda like the german answer to D&D. Unlike D&D however, it focusses much less on a 'high-magic fantasy' aspect and instead sets up a medieval world with some quite rare random bouts of magic.
Quite the different atmosphere since you don't stumble over an abomination at every corner (I'm looking at you Dragon Suck II...).

Anyways if the old titles are kinda too old and you're willing to settle for one compromise, I can recommend Drakensang to you. It allows full customization of your main character, but not of your party members. You can chose which party members you take along, how you distribute their stats, their items, but you can't change their personality, class, race or looks. Still, its really a lot of customization despite this limitation and a quite decent game as well.

I think if we start listing customizable PnP RPGs we're going to be here a long, long time.

Video games, specifically. But thanks for the suggestions.  :)

Ah, I get it now. Thanks for the clarification.

OK, so here are some suggestions that should be more in line with what you're looking for:

The first three SaGa games for the original Gameboy (called "Final Fantasy Legend" outside of Japan) have full-on party customization much like Wizardry, Bard's Tale etc. You can also include "monster" characters into your party who change into different monsters if you feed them different types of food. Pretty fun. Basic old-school JRPG otherwise though.

Also,
Dragon Quest IX
The Dark Spire (Great visuals, but if you didn't like EO you should probably stay away.)
Final Fantasy III (not 6)

Aaaaa, how did I forget those!? I love those games so much.

But, the third one didn't have a customizable party. You had four set dudes.

Sorry, my bad. I've only played the first two so I assumed the third one was like them.  :-[

Realms of Arkania 1-3 are available on GOG.  Also, GOG's version of Icewind Dale comes with all the expansions (someone had recommended getting the expansions with it).

I also remembered a couple other freeware indie RPGs that have a lot of party customization, but they're not very "fast-paced"... more of a slow, tactical combat focus.  But they might be worth checking out.  The first is called Natuk and has you leading a band of eight orcs (or half-ogres) and generally running around being evil.  You get to create the entire 8-member party with a lot of customization.  But it has a complex, turn-based combat system that might be too slow for your tastes.

The second game is very similar in its combat mechanics.  It's called Helherron, and features even better party customization due to a huge slew of races to choose from.  It's hard though, and every single fight is a long, turn-based affair so again it might be too slow for your tastes.

I played both of these for a bit but ended up getting bored... but they do have very good party customization.

Did you give Dungeon Monkey Unlimited a try? It's pretty much exactly what you described.

Peleron's Brilliant Rebirth is another party based roguelike, but I don't know how customizable it is, as I've never gotten it to run on my Vista 64 bit machine.