TIGSource Forums

Tragically keyboards have a input limitation,  my laptop for example can not recognize Left, Up and Space at the same time. So If I wanted a character jump diagonally it seems like I would be out of luck.

What do you guys think about input limitations?
Do you think it has held PC Gaming back?
Is there any way you could overcome it?

I'm actually working on a game right now and I'm debating between taking diagonal jumping out
or leaving a warning when I release the game.

Simplify your controls? I don't know why you need both up and space to jump.

I never really used a keyboard which didn't allow at least 3 or 4 keys at the same time.

Try mapping the controls to different keys. It sounds weird, but a lot of the "broken" combinations are key-specific, not key-count-specific. At least, in my experience.

yes, but they're also keyboard-specific.

In general, and this is a PRETTY RELIABLE rule of thumb, you can't ever rely on a person ever being able to press down more than two keys at once.

Welll the character is jumping from wall to wall and I thought it would be nice to have 4 different jumps, a upwards jump(up+S), a drop(down+S) and two angled jump(left+s and up+left+space)  :shrug2: it seemed like a good idea.  

That sounds like really good advice.
Its a shame, I LIKE pressing down multiple keys. :handanykey: :handanykey: :handanykey:

 But what if you had isometric overhead controls, you would need to hold down 2 keys to move diagonally, plus press a third action key.

AFAIK this problem occurs only when pressing multiple character keys. CTRL, ALT, SHIFT, SPACE etc. all have their own cable/connection so the player should be able to hold up+left+SPACE without a problem.

Otherwise CTRL+ALT+DEL wouldn't work.

could this be game engine specific?

I remember a couple time up-leftOrRight-SPACE would not work so I couldn't move diagonally and do an action

In Visual Boy Advance, this always happens, in LoZ: Link's Awakening, you can't move diagonally and swing your sword, it's worse in metroid when you wall climb, extreme annoyance

Perhaps my laptop is "special"  Up+Space+ (Right or down) works fine but it refuses to recognize Up+Space+Left. I'm really worried this is isn't that unusual.


I plugged in a second keyboard and I didn't find any problems(I'm using gamemaker)

Most isometric games just use single cursor/d-pad directions to move (interpreted at 45 degree rotation one way or the other).

This depends on keyboard hardware. One of the selling points of das keyboard (http://www.daskeyboard.com/) is that it can register more individual keypresses than a typical keyboard. Here's some technical info (http://www.dribin.org/dave/keyboard/one_html/) on why this happens, and a Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollover_(key)).

I once read HERE (http://powermagazine.liero.be/2006-POWER-2.pdf) (it was fun to dig this zine up) that on some keyboards it's helpful to use as little rows of keys as possible.

That's really interesting! Thanks! It seems like the best solution is to simply allow the player to remap their keys because what will work for some won't always work with others. But that's some good advice for determining the defaults!



 

It's entirely keyboard dependent, nothing else. Simply put, typing keyboards weren't designed for gaming; When typing you never need to press more than two or three keys at once, so to save costs such keyboards lack the ability to handle more.

There is nothing that you as a game designer can do about it.

Anyone who plays PC games should get a gaming keyboard that doesn't have this restriction. For instance the SteelSeries 7-G (http://steelseries.com/products/keyboards/steelseries-7g) can handle all of its keys pressed at once.

Hello, my first post but problem is relevant to my current project.

Recently I've been testing key combinations that work simultaneously and it looks like keyboard quality is a big factor.

I believe you have to play safe and use 'established' keys (arrow keys, WSAD, ctrl, shift).
I noticed that on cheap keyboards space key can be problematic when pressed together with arrow keys (better to avoid it).

This probably depends on a type of game you are making but in my case it's a dynamic plane flying game so simultaneous key pressing is very important (4 pressed keys at the same time are normal).

That plane game sounds awesome! Most people have gamepads so that should be ok. How exactly do the controls work?

Yes, gamepad will be probably better choice for controls. Game is a bit arcadish plane racing in the mountains, will give more details/screenshots soon.

Keyboard controls are currently set to: W(speed up), S(air brake), Arrow keys (left/right, nose up/down), Q(boost).

Boost mapping is a bit of a problem. I wanted to use Space key for boost, but some cheaper keyboards have problem with holding Space while trying to turn plane with arrow keys.

All in all, plane driving adds another dimension of movement compared to car driving so using both hands is necessary for speedy movements.

Same problem here with this project I'll restart this week end : http://code.google.com/p/radiant-laser-cross/ (there is a video of the controls)

It's thought to be played with a xbox/ps3 type joypad but on keyboard you are obviously limited by hardware inputs.

I don't know yet how to work around the 2 max keys limitations for this specific game, but it's challenging.

>inspired by Radiant-Silver-Gun and Ikaruga.
Nice!
I was actually going to mention Radiant Silver Gun as a game that uses 4 button input wonderfully.

I've simplified the controls for my first game so its no longer a issue, but thats only because my target is making a game ANYONE regardless of previous experiences with games can enjoy.

But Later on I do plan on making some very intense  :handjoystick: :handanykey: action games heavily inspired by Treasure Games and God Hand!
Knowing my target audience, I'm not a afraid to make a game that requires a gamepad or a high end keyboard I expect the majority of people downloading it won't have a problem.

My suggestion to you Klaim is to not try to work around it, Embrace the fact you are making a niche game for people who are serious enough about playing video games on their computer to already have a Gamepad.

That's my main option, so far I'm thinking to just go that way.

Now, I also think it might be worth to provide a version that would allow only one directional shoot and allow 1key for diagonal movement. That way it's possible to play on any keyboard, BUT the problem is the level design.

With 4 directions fire I can design levels where some kind of enemies appear in sync at opposite side of screen, maximizing challenge when enemies are of colors not opposite on the player's cross (forcing him do choose a side to attack first while dodging the other and then rotate guns to kill the second one).

I'm still thinking, I'll take a decision saturday morning when starting the new "clean" version.

From someone who doesn't own a gamepad, this is terrible advice.  Just allow configurable controls (http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=22972.0), and let the users sort it out from there.  That's the best choice for everyone.

That's how I was thinking the "target gamepad first" solution.

However, that doesn't fix hardware limitations anyway.

I never said he shouldn't have configurable controls. Most games should.

Chromeleon, why don't you have a gamepad? You can get a decent one for $10 with free shipping online!

...because I don't want one?  Maybe it's just because I grew up almost always playing games on computers, not consoles, but I genuinely prefer using a keyboard/mouse whenever possible.

That's fair enough! But if reminds me of Vanquish, that's another wonderful example of input limitations.

I've always been a PC gamer primary, the idea of playing a shooter with a gamepad always seemed inferior, and so I would always pick up the pc version. That is until Vanquish came along, Vanquish is the first and only third person shooter that I know of that takes advantage of Console controls.

To give an example to people who haven't played the game:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xux1h-dBzro&feature=related
often times I would run with the Left analog stick, aim with the right analog stick and break into a slide with the left trigger, while firing with the right trigger!
Vanquish uses the entire Gamepad and I think the game would be impossible with a keyboard, it really makes me wonder how keyboard controls have shaped shooters more than anything else!


It took me a while to get used to the controller but once I did I found myself enjoying a wonderful game, the best third person shooting game of my life.

On the other side of the coin games like ARMA2 would also be impossible on a gamepad.