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It's finally here!
http://doom.chaosforge.org/ (http://doom.chaosforge.org/)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAFpMN9kuog (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAFpMN9kuog)

Sadly... I think I sort of prefer the ascii, not aesthetically but UI-wise I think the close-up view is a problem :(

so wait... you can't play the game in ascii mode?

sure you can, there's a .bat file for launching in ascii mode. or you can edit the config.lua

I'll play the graphics version for awhile and see if I can get used to it, I usually prefer graphical roguelikes but I've played doomrl so much it's kinda funny seeing sprites.

All of a sudden the download size increased twenty-fold, thanks to the MP3 soundtrack. o_O
At least there's a MIDI version still available.

@C.A. Sinclair: You can still play the game in ASCII mode by running doomrl_console.bat. Edit: allen beat me to it.

The graphical version looks pretty nice (Derek Yu's tiles don't fail to impress), but I think I'll still be playing the ASCII version so I can actually see the whole level at once. Mouse support is nice but it's a little clumsy at the moment since the camera view is shifting all the time.

I think certain Rogue-likes - Brogue, DoomRL, and Dwarf Fortress being the major ones - benefit from tilesets.

dwarf fortress sure as hell doesnt benefit from tilesets. i tried the most popular one once and it looked like someone had vomited pixels all over my screen.

also brogue doesnt even have tilesets what are you talking about

now i can play it without having to look up what everything is

No worries. The UI is currently running through a fake console. A dedicated UI is the next planned step. Also, the ability to freely scroll the size is also planned.

I didn't say it did, I said (or implied, rather) I think it would benefit from one.

And Dwarf Fortress is unreadable without a tileset 8(

why? the ascii graphics look super pretty with lighting effects and what not

and df is unreadable WITH a tileset (this is a fact)

Just the general feel of the game, I suppose. I feel like a good tileset would definitely make it even better. As is, it's great.

And you are wrong. So wrong.

NO U  >B]

I should say, DoomRL is probably the game I've spent the most time playing in my life -- Doom being probably #2. Hundreds of hours! So thanks :)

Wait, hold on a second!! What happened the the awesome "blood-drip" screen wipes?! It just instantly transitions to the next level now, with no awesome effect :(

I think the game looks *amazing* using ProggyTinyTTSZ.ttf at 20 size (getting ttf fonts in console under Windows is possible, you just need to edit the registry a bit). It's a nice square-ish font that's chunky and pixel-y and easy to read.

I was really looking forward to the graphics, however in hindsight I guess this is maybe never going to be as good in terms of UI (fast readability, all information conveyed clearly) as ASCII.

Zooming out to the point where the whole level is on-screen will probably make the graphics much less readable (currently it's already quite easy to miss e.g a pistol laying on a corpse). Perhaps outlining the sprites in a bright colour -- maybe the colour used in ASCII mode? -- might help, but I think that fundamentally the game was designed with ASCII mode and thus it works best that way. Similarly with keyboard vs. mouse, it's much easier to play quickly and precisely with keyboard, mouse seems very sloppy and tedious in comparison.

Also, it has to be said -- DoomRL has the best ASCII graphics of any roguelike I've played. The use of colour and lighting, and the choice of characters, is really well done, striking a great balance between looks and functionality.

Finally -- sorry for being so critical! -- I don't know that the new high-quality wavs sound better than the old ones. I would imagine Doom's sounds were 11khz or whatever anyway (i.e low-rez) -- how did you even get high-quality versions of them?!

I moved the wavs in from 0.9.9.5 and IMO it makes a big difference to the authenticity/feel... it just doesn't sound right without the weird distorted/crusty bitrate :)

Thank you, it's an honor! :gentleman:

An old friend of mine once said "If hackers were ever to use virtual reality... it would show a bunch of terminals floating around". I do understand the need of ASCII, and I'll always support ASCII (even for DoomRL 2, although in a ... different way). However, there are people born after us, that'd never look at a screen made of ASCII. I wanted to bring DoomRL to the wider audience, and I wanted it to be done in style, not just a overlay of images over where the characters should be.

That said, there's a couple usability features that will make it to the GFX version that will not be present in the console one -- ones that actually couldn't make it. I believe that the next version might change the balance of things a little usability wise.

True, that's why it took so long to make it semi-userfriendly in the first place. However, this job isn't done yet, and things like highlighting are planned -- actually with an inspiration from Diablo's Alt key that highlighted all items on map with basic info.

When I initially implemented the mouse, so did I think -- but the more "hidden" possibilities I implemented, the more I saw potential. At the moment it still holds true, but there are a few things that are lot more easier -- easy look information, faster firing at non-default targets and faster movement to an explored position (due to the pathfinder).

Again - thank you - much care has been taken here, not to make it look like an ununderstandable friut salad :>.

The HQ sounds are from a project by a person who tracked down the source samples that were used to create the original sounds, and recreated them based on the exact same sounds, but saving them in a higher quality. It's an interesting history actually - http://www.perkristian.net/game_doom-sfx.shtml

I agree - but that holds true only for people that played much of the original. And as someone noted, DoomRL has surprisingly much appeal to people who didn't play Doom at all. Personally I prefer the original files, but I noticed that people who didn't play Doom prefer the HQ ones. However, despite having access to a great soundcard-based midi-synthesizer Sonic Clang's recreations of the Doom tracks are too good to go back to midi...

tl;dr version -- I acknowledge and fully symphatize with the old-school DoomRL player base, but I want to expand the game (not loosing the old appeal) to people that do not understand the nostalgia factor.

One of the few features I didn't have time to reimplement after the complete rewrite of IO. However, they're on the dashboard to come back again, both in the old-style ASCII version, as well as with a faithful recreation of the original wipe in GFX mode.

Well, thanks for answering everything -- the tale of the HQ sfx is really interesting, I love finding out about the-making-of type details like that.

I guess I could go on and on... argh, I can't help myself: why, why is the tactical armor nerfed?! Noooooooooooooooooooooo!!!! ;D

I would argue that Brogue has the best ASCII graphics I've seen in a roguelike.  The color, lighting, and animated backgrounds (like water) all look fantastic.  DoomRL has good ASCII too though.

As for the argument that Brogue needs a tileset, I would say not... the ASCII is really very good.  My favorite tileset has to be the one for Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup, which not only looks good but greatly increases readability, with the player able to easily see what kind of weapons enemies are holding, whether they are confused or sleeping, etc.  Plus the minimap and graphical inventory are extremely useful.

Because it was too good, and too easy to obtain :P

I find Brogue too busy, there are many "scenery" elements (grass, etc.) which do nothing but are visually distracting. In DoomRL you can instantly "read" the level. Maybe I'm just more familiar with it though. Also, I'm not a big fan of the weird high-res font used in Brogue. Seriously, ProggyTinyTTSZ is *the* font for roguelikes.


Yeah, you're right I guess :(

how fucking stupid can you get

it's already the best looking roguelike, even among roguelikes with a tileset. there's no way a tileset would be able to look so awesome and colorful without becoming an unreadable mess.

YES! Been waiting for this a long time. Goodbye productivity, hello DoomRL.  :handjoystick: :handanykey:
Seriously, i hope this increases the player base manyfold, its one of the best roguelikes around.

Im also crossing my fingers for the AliensRL to become graphical and updated as well.

I like the tileset in this because it draws back to the inspiration source and plays off the memories of playing Doom originally.  A game like Brogue whose main source of inspiration is Rogue has no need of tilesets.  It's beautiful as is, in its own distinctive way and completely readable. So, too with DF (although it's not as beautiful as Brogue).

I think he meant Dwarf Fortress, not DoomRL.

Well, he mentioned Dwarf Fortress, DoomRL, and Brogue in his original post about tilesets. And I think bobo was upset about Brogue.  But I could be wrong.

Got any tips for doomRL? First time playing today, got killed on the second floor by a chaingunner. Was pretty fun but I was wondering if there is any general advice for NOT DYING? Was playing on Hurt Me Plenty.

he meant brogue

mm sure thx. almost beat a hell room(?) killed two cacodemons then a dang flying skull killed me.

loving this game though

oops sorry i was replying to fallsburg

oh god this game is intense and hilarious fun

got to floor 7 at best. fun stuff using the rocket launcher

Back in version 0.9.9.4 I beat the game once on the easiest difficulty, almost exclusively using various shotguns (potentially a spoiler if you're not familiar with the original Doom). I've almost beaten the game on the second easiest difficulty, but I screwed up just a few levels before final victory.

What sort of weapon/trait builds do you guys use? I used to always focus on shotgun-related skills, except when doing challenges that prohibit shotguns, but to vary things a bit I've been trying chaingun-focused builds lately.

I find the shotgun really satisfying, so I've been going with that plus the reloader/shotgunner traits. backing them up with the +10hp trait mainly.

Try strafing, just like in the doom fps. If you zig zag as fighting an enemy, theres a chance it might miss when shooting you. So alternate shooting / reloading / moving. That and corner shooting (using a corner or doorway as partial cover). Some perks let you reload shotguns while moving, so you can strafe and reload at the same time. Also remember you can run, which can be useful to get away in a pinch from a hairy situation.
Spouting quotes from the doom comic out loud also helps

(http://images.wikia.com/doom/images/0/0d/Doomcomic.png)

The reloader trait is the best thing ever, especially if you manage to lay your hands on a double shotgun.
Edit: I meant shottyman. But reloader's great as well.

It really is. As you get better, you won't need to rely on it/shottyman as much, but I'd say that you should always get at least a single rank of it if you're planning on using shotguns anywhere towards the end. (two pretty much guarantees safe cornershooting most of the time, but one + rocket launcher/melee finish(with appropiate build) is what I do nowadays)

Also shell boxes.

This game is pretty groovy. I haven't got past floor 7 yet, but I'm having a lot of fun going around with a shotgun blasting everything up in hell's arena.

Ok, having finally spent a bit of time with the game, here are my thoughts:

1) It is a great recreation of Doom in a roguelike setting.
2) (1) makes it a terrible roguelike. The lack of hidden knowledge (other than level layouts) and a hunger mechanic detract from the experience.
3) The tactical combat is perhaps the best that I have ever encountered in a roguelike.
4) While I like the way leveling is handled, I wish there was no leveling.  I would prefer to see more classes at the beginning.

tbh the class system in the new version feels a bit tacked on to me (older versions just had the traits).

i think given a lot more thought and more effect on the trait system, the classes could be great, but for now i just pick the top one and get on with it.

the trait system is awesome, i always prefer it to standard stat-based levelling systems.

Played almost over 40 hour. beated 4 times including A100 challenge.

Completely ruined my productivity! Too addictive!

Just started playing this. Pretty awesome so far.

The game saves on quit right? I lost my last game but it might have been because I closed the game rather than quit through the menu.

To save you have to press "S" instead of ">" when on top of a staircase to the next level (I'm not sure what the controls are for the mouse interface). If it's feasible to implement, the ability to save in the middle of a level would be very convenient for me, since I'm always getting interrupted in the middle of a level.

it's probably a save-scumming prevention thing, not a "feasibility" thing

Not sure what you mean by that, considering that you can still save-scum with the current save system (Edit: actually I've never tried, so does it generate the next level when you load the game or when you save it? That would make a small difference if you decided to copy your save file), and other roguelikes have allowed saving at any turn without major problems regarding save-scumming.

it generates a new one

kornel is supposedly working on save anywhere though, which could be in the next version at earliest

i dont really mind it either way because the levels are so short and if i really do need to interrupt the game in the middle of a level i just leave it running in the background. its not like its a resource hog.

Ah ok, I didn't realize I had to be at a pre-defined point. TY

This game got my friend Joe hooked on the RL genre.

bravo