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So me and my friend are both semi-noobs at this game and have a regular competition between each other on Friday evenings. I almost always play Lucas, and him Captain Falcon. It is a rare occasion that he ever beats me with this match up, like every 1 out of 25 games or so. He blames this on me spamming PK fire, which i use when i have a long range advantage or to cancel out his falcon kicks but when the time comes i end up putting more damage on with chain grabbing and smash attacks. He see's it as spamming that i use PK fire to up his damage when he is far away (but isn't that why the attack exists?), is there really a problem with spamming in SSBB or is he just having a whinge because he can't win.

Also he decided to play snake one day and i toon link, in this match up he won, i have no problem with this yet he believes that it proves the only reason i win at Lucas is because he is a higher tier. His claim is that someone with moderate knowledge of a high tier character will regularly beat a practiced veteran who plays a lower tier character.

I honestly just want some unbiased opinions on to whats going on here, am i doing something wrong in the way i play?

Yes. You're spamming attacks out the ying-yang, which is what the game is about, so nothing is wrong with you. It's the game with few moves. That's also what makes it simpler and easier for the casual.

i dont know how smash bros work but in every other fighting game ever theres no such thing as cheap and you win by using the most stupid, silly, dirty, or some other adjective mix ups you can to win a match

if they dont block or avoid something keep doing that until you win

good job, you're playing like those professional video game men

I just googled the tier list and Lucas and Captain Falcon are on the same tier anyway:
http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Tier_list

Smash Bros. is not a competitive game series.  I feel sorry for people who try and take it seriously.  It clearly was not designed with that in mind.

it's so easy to dodge all of the long range projectiles in ssbb

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxkiUM4KSUQ

Just because it's not competitively designed doesn't mean it won't be played that way, when you have two people who like to win in friendly competition it's going to happen regardless of the game.

Reminds me of a friend I used to play against, he hated it when I played long range characters and always called it cheap even though I still lost to him quite often.
It's a core part of the game and he needs to learn how to counter those attacks.

project m (http://projectm.dantarion.com/) is pretty cool, especially if you want to play it with a more 'competitive' style.


(go charizard)

Let's have a real man to man talk about SSBB

(play this in the background as you read. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVFpRQdOuQ0)

Complains of spamming:

Each move degrades in effectiveness as you "spam" it, so it's power ramps down if you use only a few moves, you are trading power for utility/opportunity when you spam. There is an exception with Metaknight being just dumb with spamming neutral B, and a few exceptions but for the most part spamming is your choice, it isn't cheap, you trade off for it, and this goose is getting outplayed in whats called "keep away" if he can't close in due to "spamming"

Tiers:

Tiers are pros looking at what counters what, what match ups, true combos and so forth then places in tiers after long discussions. This is accounting for the HIGHEST LEVEL of play

When you get to the point where you are talking about things like
"Wiffing on FRAMES 8-9"
"Wave dash canceling"
and "Snakes Nade traps"

then and ONLY THEN do the tiers hold a real solid ground because sure Jiggypuff vs G&W Jiggy has like a 20/80 vs him due to lets say for example his up smash beating out your wall of pain aerials.

but that low skilled player is too busy doing random Bullshit like flipping sausages and trying to I9I you with his over B that he wont be capitalizing on that weakness to the match up...now suddenly Jiggy isn't so bad in her worst match bumping her up a totem.

Next, Tiers take into account stages, stage weaknesses and counter picking/picking stages in a tournament setting. If you little cuties are playing on nothing but Final Destination this throws out how BAD Bowser plays on Rainbow cruise or Big Blue, and suddenly Bowser is a overall better pick.

At your skill level when do tiers matter?
The tiers don't matter, the -match ups- are the critical thing. Jiggy might be last tier but honestly she does really good very a handful of the cast, so if thats what you are fighting then there you go.

Metaknight the bes

your friend is a big baby and there exists people with who you'll have more fun playing

A friend found a youtube series by someone who spends like four hours a day playing Connect Four online and is basically the best Connect Four person in the world with reams of theories and techniques and I imagine that he's absolutely terrible to play against if you're a normal person just trying to have fun.

if you pit two players against each other in a game with no random, then there can always be competitiveness. Some people can have fun with that and some can have none (getting stomped)
I think most people will find it boring but thats not really the fault of the connect four strategist

Playing as randomised characters is the only way the people I play with ever get around competetiveness. It makes the game more about improvising and using the environment than maxing out how to use one char.
Also change your stages to get more variety.

Stop just using the same characters and mix it up and you'll see who is better.
Or you'll just have more fun.

Check some screens from I Wanna Be The Guy or You Have To Win The Game, and try reproducing some of the funner ones in the level editor.

GOOD TIMES.

I would think that Connect 4 would be a completely solvable game with current technology, and therefore not worth devoting ones life to.

Actually, after researching, the game was solved in 1988.

Hope he never faces a good Falco, Diddy, Snake or Olimar. Lucas' projectile is okay, but hardly a problem, especially for Captain Falcon since he's the 5th fastest character in the air and the 2nd on the ground. They're pretty much tied tier-wise.

And about Smash not being competitive: the community decides that, really. There are people breaking world records in freaking Mario Kart.

Ouch. D:

Yes and no. In the short term, don't spam too much. It can be very frustrating for the other player when you keep completely owning him with attacks he has trouble with. (I personally notice this when using Lili's cartwheel attack a bit too much in Tekken Tag 2.) If you're playing casually, try using it a bit less if he starts to get frustrated.

In the long term, the proper answer is 'deal with it'. Fighting games are structured such that each attack, movement or tactic (save for some boss character moves) has a counter that can be used to turn your disadvantage into an advantage. You have to become better by analyzing the things you have trouble with and finding a solution for them. PK Fire only goes horizontally and is really slow, so it's easy to dodge and easy to punish once you've successfully dodged it.

And getting his Falcon Kicks countered with PK Fire? He should consider himself lucky you're not countering it with an actually powerful attack. In higher-level play using slow moves like Falcon Kick in a predictable way results in a swift death. If your opponent is able to counter a specific maneuver you tend to make, stop using that trick. Recognizing when to and when not to use certain tricks is an essential skill in fighting games. You simply can't win if you're too predictable.

As for the tier lists, it's been explained pretty well earlier in the thread. Tier lists answer the question of "If two high-level pro players with equal skill play each other with the given characters, who is more likely to win?", not "If two newbies play with each other with the given characters, who will win?".

Hahahhaahahahahaha and he had technique names like "Seven Stacking" or whatever

Your friend is a noob. Every attack has a counter. "Cheap" is a noob word.

Stop spamming. Win like a man. Give him a chance, and beat him regardless. Or are you afraid you'll lose?

The tier thing is some pretty classic nonsense. A high level player would rip a regular guy to pieces with any char.

but spamming and winning like a shitty little kid who throws sand in someones face is how you get good at other fighting games

I fuck shit up as Ganondorf and Jigglypuff.

Fuck tiers.

Yes, against strong competition. It's different against friends.

Tier lists only make sense in the context of two high level players facing off against eachother.  With high vs. low, or low vs. low it doesn't matter nearly as much, unless something is really, really unbalanced with the game (Godmode broken/glitchy character, playable boss, etc.).

metaknight.

Super Turbo Akuma.

Add in AI dummies for him to beat up, and help him do it sometimes. Or sit down with him and his character, and explain the tells and tricks of counterattacking. Then face him with somebody different.

Half the game is playing your character, the other half is playing the other players.