TIGSource Forums

(http://i.imgur.com/EE7M7x4.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/j85oAzl.png?1)

(http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/834993931.gif?1390489479)

You play as Lillian Gish, a little bunny girl who has a passion for throwing knives.

The entire game is built around the idea of knife power ups.

I'm completely open to any and all criticism and suggestions.  I want this game to be as fun as possible for everyone.

I plan on creating an endless horde mode, as well as a story mode.

You can find the latest gameplay demos at : www.deviever.com (http://www.deviever.com/)

Created in Construct 2!

Let there be blood.

(http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/834313274.gif)

(http://i.imgur.com/W29djRI.gif)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BeWCi1KCcAABlDY.png)

New demo up : http://www.deviever.com/edge/ (http://www.deviever.com/edge/)

Would love to hear your feedback.

For those who don't have the time to play the latest Lillian Gish and the Edge of Time demo, here is a video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNVMo3ymnVo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNVMo3ymnVo)

Cool game. I would like it if the big knives followed the same rules as the little knives i.e. shot down in the direction of the cursor instead of the direction the character is facing.

Thanks!

... and yeah, I was considering that.  Would probably feel better.  Will switch it up next dev cycle (sometime tomorrow) and see how it feels. :D

Let me know if there is anything else you'd like to see changed / added!

Some people just don't know how to follow instructions....

(http://i.imgur.com/8BYD52P.jpg?1)

New build and the first CHALLENGE of Lillian Gish and the Edge of Reason! GOOD LUCK!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BeXpDBNCcAAvYaU.png)

http://www.deviever.com/

i luv teh ttitle

Thanks. :3

- - -

Latest update!

Play it here : http://www.deviever.com/

- Added "aiming" mechanic for the big knife.
- Added jump down through knife button
- a few visual changes
- Updated level with more instructions / obstacles

play is pretty fun, like it. sometimes i got stuck and had to mess the bigblade to find an exit because they go through the walls and the hold of the knives dissappears in the wall. also i got kinda stuck when the walls became tight so there was suddenly a lot of rumbling. but after jumping a few times i came out of it.

that was what i discovered so far but like said its huge fun to throw that blades and this holding w float is pretty nice too

Sweet.  Yeah.  I'm still sussing out the collision detection.  This is pretty much my third day using Construct 2 so I'm still getting used to the finder details. :3

Glad you enjoyed the floating and blades! :D  My aim is to have a lot more power ups and by the end of it all spelunky-level control over the character.

Let me know if there is anything you would like to see more of in the future and thanks for giving it a shot! :D

This makes the game play a LOT more smoothly : http://www.deviever.com/

01.20.04 : build ad05001

- Fixed Lillian's jittery collision detection.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BecWvfXCQAEYCq5.png)

My pixel art versions of a David North (https://twitter.com/DavidNorthart)'s enemy concepts.  Will be implementing these soon.

Heh, I really like the concept of an absurd action ability used also for puzzles! Very inspiring, this. :)

Ha ha.  Thanks.  The original idea was that is was going to be a mindlessly fun run and gun game, but I think I'm going to break it up with more stealthy puzzle bits. :3

Would definitely love to hear any ideas ya got if anything comes to mind.  I'm still VERY early in figuring out the direction of this game!

(http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/834551978.gif)

ooh ah ooh ah ooh ah ooh ah

moar fluidity

(http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/834554405.gif)

I played the demo and I really liked it! It has some neat mechanics that could make for a ton of puzzle stuff. Being able to use knives as platforms is pretty cool. I also like the art a lot. Pixels are the best!

The one issue I did have was with the big knife. When you hold down prior to launching it, it seems like if the translucent knife is already intersecting with a wall when you let go, it will ignore collision with that side of the cube, so if you are very close to a wall when you fire them they won't stop until they hit the opposite side. I ended up with a lot of big knives totally embedded in the wall that I couldn't use to climb.

Thanks Mike!

I'm still getting used to how Construct 2 handles collisions and will definitely be fixing the knife-to-wall collisions soon.

I kinda like the idea of the big knives going deep into walls so you can hit something on the other side.... the smaller ones are meant for more practical stuff like building ladders.

I think in the final game, the big knife will be more of an every-now-and-then power up of sorts that you can only use every so often.

Either way, you're right, I definitely need to figure out how to make it work more predictably. :/

- - -

Speaking of unpredictable things... working on the "wizard" enemy who takes your knives and throws them back at ya.

(http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/834561426.gif)

STOP THROWING THEM AT HIM, HE'S USING THAT AGAINST YOU!!

 :lol: :biglaff: :durr:

(https://24.media.tumblr.com/fb4262c4d4dfb2b7f70f5e379ea752f5/tumblr_mzszjgz4gk1t046abo1_500.png)

Ever wanted to ride knives through the air like a graceful wing-ed gazelle?  Now is your chance : http://www.deviever.com/edge/05_SPACE/

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advanced blood spray technique

(http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/834855102.gif?1390413641)

The blood must flow.

I'm really enjoying the gameplay so far.

If you plan to make the big knife follow the same rules as the small ones why would I use the small ones? It breaks blocks, it hits more enemies in one throw, it would definitely be the dominant strategy.

It's going to be a limited use item.  Not sure how yet, but you won't be able to throw it much in the final game.

... and glad you are enjoying the gameplay thus far!  :gentleman:

Video of the health / knife upgrade system I'm working on.  Notice only one small knife at a time.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWCnp8H7gmw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWCnp8H7gmw)

So the health system is pretty much this : Gather blood from enemies = more knives you can throw.  if you get hit, you start bleeding out.

The bullet time makes me crazy, following! :crazy:

 :nono: :gentleman: :coffee:

(http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/834993931.gif?1390489479)

rain down

video here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI9z7KGAsCk&feature=youtu.be

Latest build is up here : http://www.deviever.com/

Change Log

01.23.04 : build ad06001

- enhanced blood mechanics
- limited amount of knives based on how much blood you collect
- gathering blood helps gain more knives
- getting hit will bleed out till you lose one knife
- once maximum amount of knives have been embedded, click again to reset them
- lil reacts to getting hit
- added some sounds
- game slows down slightly if FPS drops below 50 to compensate for delta time collision problems in fast moving objects
- added new Wizard enemy (not yet available to interact with)

Some of the concept art David North (https://twitter.com/DavidNorthart) is doing on his spare time.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BergNRKCMAA9xib.png:large)

Time to roll....

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BevVnIPCIAA2M2K.png:large)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BevyBTuCQAAZiAh.png:large)

i like the blood and slow-mo

Thanks. :3  :tiger: :wizard: :gomez: :gentleman:

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video > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR4K_kSvGBo

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door juice

I do like jhflt's various pixel works, but I've got to say I'm a bit underwhelmed by the look and feel so far. Maybe because my expectations were high? In particular, I think the palette is a bit unbalanced with the purply reds having too strong a contrasts to the turquoisy blues. But I'm also a bit underwhelmed by the general "mood" that the blue color theme creates.

I hope you don't take this feedback as too negative - I'm certainly going to follow this thread, but it's my honest opinion at this point.  :concerned:

I appreciate all feedback, but some suggestions as to how it could be improved would be much appreciated along with criticism.  I'm learning here, so anything you could provide in terms of alternatives to what I'm doing won't fall on deaf ears.

 :gentleman:

(http://i.imgur.com/EE7M7x4.jpg)

Illustration of Lillian Gish by @DavidNorthart (http://"https://twitter.com/DavidNorthart") pixelized and colorized by moi.

BTW, for reference, the current palette comes from my love of the CGA cyan, magenta, white, black color palette... if you played the tutorial, you'll see I've already toned down the colors quite a bit from the first build.

Also, I'd like to mention that this is all very preliminary stuff I'm just using as a foundation / place holders for getting the base engine off the ground.  The long-term goal is to have a lot more variety in terms of mood / scenes, etc.

But once again, I'm 100% open to ideas of where to take this, as my end goal is to have it be an enjoyable experience for as many people as possible. :3

Specifically to the points you raised, I'm very curious about your thoughts on mood.  It's my long term goal to make more games that have an emotional impact on people, though in regards to Lillian Gish and the Edge of Reason, I'm more focused on it simply being enjoyable.... though the idea of it also having a certain emotional aesthetic is not far from my mind.

Also, what is jhflt? ... oh, that's me.... lol... thx  :nono: :durr: :facepalm: :wizard: :-*

That's a fair point, of course. Unfortunately, though, I'm not really much of a visual artist myself and therefore probably not someone who should give advice on this. As a matter of fact, there's a good chance that most people wouldn't agree to my point  :'( but if someone with more talent than me agrees perhaps they have a good suggestion?


The CGA inspiration is uncanny, and rethinking my original comment, if this is what you were going for by all means follow your vision!  :handthumbsupL:  :handthumbsupR: Don't get distracted by comments like mine, but for the sake of completeness, allow me to link to a thread in a different forum here on TIGSource a while ago about palettes (maybe further inspiration can be found there?)

http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=25396.45


Yep. And of course I understand that this is preliminary and will be pimped in the future :-)


Sounds great. I really love your work on Dreaming Sarah, so I have no doubt that you will pull off emotional aesthetics for Lillian Gish as well.

Again, I can't help but think now that my comment was inappropriate given the early stage this game is still in. But if you asked me for a good example, I would probably point to something like Environmental Station Alpha, which is also a pixely platformer, that IMHO manages to pull off a great atmosphere in its use of colors, details, depth, lighting, and level design. (Mind you, that's a game that some 86% done already.) The question is how other games could become inspirations without you giving up your own style!

why do u need to finish the game so fast and make $$$ out of it ?

Because I want to make games for a living and I only have enough savings for two months to do nothing but work on this game.  :shrug2:

Totally. :3  Well, once again, I'm still interested in what you meant by mood if you feel you could elaborate a bit more on it.  For instance, I know that going into this game it kinda gives off a lot of vibes in terms of it being bloody, about knives, kinda pixel art retro.

One of the things I've been a huge fan of recently is minimalism... not in the idea of "Let's make this game retro!" but in the idea of how much you can do with the fewest amount of colors / pixels.

It's something of a design challenge as much as something I find pleasing aesthetically.

You might say it's a bit of reaction to what I see are a lot of people not concentrating much on aesthetics in game as much they care about making things "look like something else".

So I'm not really trying to emulate much other than doing as much as I can with as little as I can while still sticking to my own personal aesthetic joy while at the same time trying to make a good experience for everyone. :3

It might sound like an over-convoluted way of approaching the visual design (and sound design for that matter...) but I feel like I'd be an idiot to not listen to what everyone has to say this early in my game development career, because I've only technically been at this for a year or so, only a few months if you really count the work hours.

ANYHOW.  Point being, I'd still like to hear more of your thoughts on color and mood.  I know you say you are not a visual artist, but there's something you felt was off, and I'd love to hear about your expectations vs. the current state of the game.  You are completely fair to critique what I'm doing, even if it's beyond before alpha. :3

I'm here to learn and grow, and I appreciate the time you've give so far into thinking about this! :D

you can always find a job  ;)

Is the CGA 4 color art style intentional?

Also that giant Blaster Master tank is hilarious.

Yup, and thanks.  I'm hoping to make the tank a little less hilarious... ha ha, but I hope at the least it's entertaining.  I've been walking this weird line between the game being goofy and serious... I think I'm going for weird more than anything. :3

First step towards hack as fuck dungeon procedural generation.

(http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/835377194.gif?1390671110)

Sorry for the late reply, I had to go on a business trip last week...


Thanks for insisting, because this forces me to think about what I meant myself and to make a stronger statement than just talking about a cloudy word like "mood". First, however, please allow me to digress a little bit.

Some time ago, I set myself the challenge to make a game character consisting of only 4x6 pixels and a single color. It took me quite a while but eventually I came up with this running animation which at the time I was quite pleased with. It consists of only three frames so it isn't totally smooth, but you could argue it's another achievement in terms of minimalism.

(http://oi60.tinypic.com/2yxqk9j.jpg)

Now, there are many good reasons I can think of to pursue such an endeavor. BUT! Ultimately we have to ask ourselves: what's the point of all this? Because while it's fun to challenge oneself and to work within self-imposed restrictions (be it palette, resolution, you name it), these are probably nice "finger exercises" but what does this actually add in terms of making a good game?

Because that should be our goal: making a good game.

Exercises are good, just like a painter practicing sketches and making studies before taking on a monumental painting.

So it's not about setting oneself arbitrary goals: Hey, let's see if I can make a 1-bit color depth game! Well, of course you can. It has been done before. You can always make some kind of game no matter what the restrictions are -- but the hard part is making an interesting game that people would want to play. And the point I'm trying to make here that reducing complexity through constraining your ways of expression doesn't automatically lead to a good game.

Take a look at "Pioneers" here in the forums. The author, Eigen, decided to restrict himself to use only 4 colors for the whole game. Well, but that alone doesn't mean anything. It's how he's pulling it off, given that color constraint, that makes this game really cool. Otherwise, people would just look at the game and go: "Oh, wow, he's only using 4 colors? Cool!" And two minutes later they'd move on to the next game... unless the game is fun to play. You don't get any brownie points for doing it in 4 colors -- you still have to create an interesting vibe, an engaging atmosphere, like Eigen did.

Now, in addition to what I said above about artificial restrictions making good finger exercises but not necessarily being good instruments to base an actual game on -- that should be taken with a grain of salt: I don't believe there is only "one way" to make a game, it really all depends. As a matter of fact, especially in game jams where the time to make a full game from scratch is limited, people often enjoy to develop the game organically, as they go. They start with a certain premise and then run with it. To me, this style is reminiscent of musicians improving together. Maybe you start with a melody or a rhythm or something else, and then you see where it can take you. Why should that not also work for video games?

But at the same time it's clear that this approach lends itself to certain types of games better than to others. In any event though, I think it's more difficult to keep a consistent, convincing gaming experience if you develop the game in the improvised, more reactive style. Unless it's a very small game. Now back to the actual topic...

You say that you want to evoke emotion in the players of your game. I think that's a very good approach. But then maybe the first question to ask is "what kind of emotion?" Because I believe the mood of a game is a big factor of steering the emotional experience of the player.

Let's take for instance a look at two very successful mainstream series, Uncharted and Tomb Raider. All titles in these series are at a basic level very similar games: running around, some platforming, some shooting action, mild puzzle solving, story driven. But they transport very different moods! For instance, compare say Uncharted 1 to the latest Tomb Raider reboot - both games share aspects such as having you run through ruins and jungle-like forests. But right from the opening sequences of both titles, the mood is very, very different: you have the sunset, hawaii-shirt style of Uncharted 1 that feels almost like a TV detective show from the 80's. And then you have the mysterious, very dark atmosphere of Tomb Raider's ship wreck back story. Similar game mechanics, completely different moods!

Of course, a game's mood is more than just its graphical style. Sound effects, music, level design, etc. all contribute. It's what makes making a good game difficult but that's also what makes it fun. This is where game making is not just a technical, but an artistic endeavor.

In the end, to me, "mood" is what remains in your head even years after you last played a game. You won't think back to "Tomb Raider" and go "yeah, that was a fascinating story-line" or "oh, that one puzzle was so clever". You will more likely think of the island, the sea, stormy weather, the emotional stress the character you play goes through... and then in a second thought, maybe, about specific scenes you remember. If that is true, then maybe it's a good idea to ask yourself: "what is the association I want people to remember about my game?"

At the same time, I think stuff like this can also very easily lure you away from ever shipping a product if you wax philosophical from day 1 to a point where it inhibts progression. So my advice would be to take this middle path and think about the mood of your game and how to create it as one important aspect of development without obsessing over it.

The End.

Sorry for going crazy in this post :-)

did she delete her account or what drama is this

Yes, she did. She's now using mainly twitter for updates to have more time for actual work :-)

Here's her twitter: https://twitter.com/deviever and the latest build of Lillian Gish can be found here: http://deviever.itch.io/lilliangishandtheedgeofreason

Nice game! I like how fluid everything is and how the enemies are violently throwing themselves at you!

And I got a bug, I got pushed over the Edge of the wall, was standing in the corner when hit by a black dagger:

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/61894646/edgeofthewall.JPG)

that's what I call drama, why stop browsing forums when you can unfollow everyone and delete your accounts