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Hi folks,

I've just launched a beta for Windows of my current project, Invertium. Is a sci-fi platformer with physics based mechanics. You can download the beta at www.lunar-kingdom.com (http://www.lunar-kingdom.com)

Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKP0tj439DA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKP0tj439DA)

All feedback about bugs and gameplay will be very much appreciated!!

Cheers

Soooo no one interested in playing it and give me some feedback?

I'm a little bit sick of gravity manipulation these days, so I don't yet know if I'll be playing this. Is there anything that sets it apart from other, similar games? Also, is there a storyline?

I do like that it seems you can change gravity while in the air. The trailer shows a decent amount of gameplay variety. The animation looks a bit choppy at times, but I like the level graphics.

Well, I don't know what to say, I don't know all that huge amount of similar games, so I can't say why is different. If you could point me to those games I would appreciate it.

The game is based on changing gravity to 4 directions, and also picking special items to freeze motion, slow it down, inverse it... Some of the puzzles are based on ability (change gravity at the precise moment, speed of movement) and others are more about to think how to use the 4 directions to make some object push something, use objects as platforms...

Anyway, I'd say that I'm a developer who doesn't have proper testers and needs the community to give me feedback. I'm not trying to sell the game to you, all I want is that you test it and tell me what could be improved and how.

Well, I've been avoiding them for a while and can't remember exactly what they were. VVVVVV stands out in my mind, but your game seems very different.

All right. Sounds fairly interesting. I'll give it a try and get back to you.

Ok, that would be great. Thanks!

Before you read this, please note that the criticism is meant to be constructive. The game seems to work just fine and I'm actually interested in playing more of it (if I could get past a certain spot) so that's a good thing.

Also note that not all of the issues I mentioned are actually big problems. I just like to be thorough, so I'm mentioning even the smaller things.


Bugs:

-I gravity-shifted onto the bottom of the moving platform and it acted a bit weird at first. I kept sliding left and right, as if it was trying to figure out where I should be. That weirdness didn't last long, though.

-When spikes kill me, the sound keeps stuttering until I press Enter.

-I was on the wall just above the vertical first spike strip and shifted gravity upward only to instantly die and have that stuttering sound start. I'm guessing that rotating gravity moved my collision box into the spikes, but that shouldn't really happen, especially in an open area like that.

-I was on the right wall of the shaft leading out of the first zone, and when gravity auto-switched, I got damaged by the left wall. That only happened once, so it seems like a bug.


Graphical and Auditory Notes:

-I like the look of the title screen, for the most part. The text seems a little dark. I tried out the colour #911313 and liked it better, but obviously that's personal preference. I think the title should stand out a bit.

-The "T" in the title looks strange to me because the "bottom" of it doesn't line up with the other letters. Maybe that was on purpose to make it stand out?

-I actually really like the simple music.

-I like the little touches like the character's hair blowing around.

-This is an incredibly minor thing, but I don't like how the outline of the ground at the start is twice the thickness of the outline around other things (like the moving platform, for example).

-I like the sound of the gravity switcher, but the footsteps sound a bit strange for someone walking on metal.


Gameplay Notes:

-The character takes too long to speed up and slides a bit too much when slowing down, in my opinion.

-If you like the sliding, then I think the player should also slide a bit when switching directions otherwise it feels strange that there's slipperiness at some times and not other times. Another thing that might be worth considering is some sort of animation, or "dust" kicked up by sliding so that it comes across as intentional rather than just being slippery control.

-It would be very nice if I could press Control while holding the Up key, rather than having to let go and lose sight of the platform I'm trying to reach. It would just be more convenient.

-Fall damage is extreme. I dropped off that moving platform without grabbing the health and died. Later, I dropped about two feet onto that platform and lost a quarter of my health. I feel like the minimum speed at which you start to receive damage should be increased.

-I have to wonder why fall-damage is in this game. Most action-puzzle games put the emphasis on the puzzles and reflexes. This game seems to make managing your incredibly limited health the focus, and I personally don't think that is as enjoyable. I want to be flying around in different directions and changing gravity just before hitting spikes, not worrying that a two-foot drop might kill me.

-For a section that seems like a tutorial, it doesn't really tell the player much. Maybe there should be a message like, "That fall really hurt. You'll need to patch yourself up." I also think that it should encourage the player to try shifting gravity horizontally. People aren't necessarily used to having that option, and I died a bunch of times before realizing that was the answer. The game seems to imply that certain actions are required, like shifting from the ceiling to the second battery, even though that's the worst way to do it.

-Dying and having to replay boring sections is not enjoyable. Checkpoints would be nice. A game like VVVVVV, for example, requires a lot of tricky maneuvers but you get to retry them right away if you die and that makes it less annoying.

-It seems like it would be very easy to miss a battery and be unable to finish the level (at least, the game implies that it's required). Maybe you need to add some sort of gameplay contrivance so that doors could open when you grab a battery or be opened by using some of its power.


Misc. Notes:

-I'm not a fan of installers in indie games, especially when testing things (because there might be a lot of different versions to try), but it's not a huge deal.

-Logos I can't skip through irritate me. I can understand wanting it to show up, but please don't make me wait for it to fade all the way.

-The initial control-selection menu should probably allow both control methods so that someone who wants to do everything with the arrow keys can use them there as well.

-It seemed a little strange that the background stopped moving while I was in the options menu (the one reached from the title screen).

-The story intro seemed pretty good. Centered text like that seemed a little bit strange, though. I think centering only works well for small amounts of text, not large paragraphs.

-I noticed a few little typos and grammar issues. The word "injuried" should be "injured". The sentence beginning with "Except" isn't a complete sentence. It should really just be a continuation of the sentence before it. I would also recommend changing "alien invader forces" to "invading alien forces" because it sounds a bit strange.

-Windowed mode would be nice. Alt-tabbing back and forth while writing these notes wasn't ideal, and I know a lot of people do like to play games in windows (although I'm not generally one of them).



I think the main issue at this point, apart from the fall damage, is that the level design strongly implies that the player should be doing certain things, when they should really be doing the opposite. Dropping onto the second battery was one example. Another is the spikes in the second zone. With a moving platform and a battery, it seemed like I needed to go right and cross the spikes somehow, even though I actually needed to go the opposite direction. I was hesitant to do that, though, because I was sure fall damage would kill me. Ignoring those issues, the game seems pretty decent. It plays pretty well and looks all right. If I didn't have to start from the beginning every time I died, I'd probably play more of it.


Update: Wow...I didn't realize I'd written so much. Crazy. Hopefully you get something useful out of all this.

Hi!

Wow, that's a very detailed feedback, thanks!

Regarding the bugs, yeah, I know more or less all that you mention, I'm working on them.

I also see some good suggestions I'll take into consideration, like the checkpoints and graphic stuff. The point about the checkpoints is: if I put them and maintain the battery system like it is right know, it could happen that you pick up a checkpoint after missing a battery and you can't go back... I have to re-think that, maybe reaching the end of the level is enough, but I introduced the batteries to force the player to pass through the places I want. What about the batteries as checkpoints?

I also have to correct the grammar things, I'm not native English speaker as you probably have realized :-)

The only thing I disagree is the fall damage, because I designed the game like that on purpose. There is always a way (or almost always xD) to pass the situations without getting hurt. The idea behind being easily hurt is that you think and analyze instead of trying to play it quickly. I think is what makes the game different from other games like VVVVV, which is fast and more ability oriented. If I do what you said of just falling from where you want, change gravity and avoid spikes... well, that's a different game for me. What maybe I could do is relax the intensity of the damage if it is too much. Anyway, is a valuable input.

I have a lot to work on and think :-)

Thank you!

I agree that checkpoints don't work with the batteries as they are now, but I think that's a problem with the batteries. The third battery, for example, is in a place that the player isn't actually required to go and can't see from a distance. Some players will likely miss it entirely and reach the end of the level without ever knowing it was there. One option that might solve the problem would be to make every checkpoint a teleporter, so that people can easily return to old areas to search for things they missed.

In any case, I think that checkpoints are pretty important. Even an incredibly difficult and unfair game like "I Wanna Be the Guy" has checkpoints. Players who didn't design the game are going to be surprised by dangers with very little time to react, and having to start the level over every time will turn many people off.

I understand your reason for having fall damage. It feels good to make a game that requires players to think, but you have to remember that they can't always think about what's coming because they don't know what's coming like you do.

I can get to the second battery with about 50% health, or with 85% health. That's a pretty huge difference. Not everyone will always find the best solution, and if health is needed sometimes then people might die because they didn't leave the previous zone with enough health and had no way of knowing that. You could possibly avoid this problem by giving a health pack whenever the player will need it for a long fall, or just getting rid of the "almost" and always having a way to avoid damage.

The problem with that, then, is that health becomes mostly meaningless. If I know there's a way to avoid damage entirely, then everything becomes a case of the "right" way and the "wrong" way. Then you might as well just make the player die in one-hit rather than having a health bar.

There also needs to be some level of predictability. If I look at a drop and think, "I could jump that far in real life without getting hurt" then my character should also not get hurt.

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate your feedback. I disagree with you in some points, it seems we differ a lot on how much we have to guide the player through the game, I think is a matter of what we like. I designed it knowing that is easy to die, and that you have to explore and learn from dying. I know that they don't know what I do, I count on that, but I want him to try things. About damage, is not about the right or wrong way, but the best and others that are not that good. All that is on purpose and is what I like from the game, maybe not for everyone, that is true.

Besides that, you had good points, I agree on the checkpoints and maybe relaxing damage intensity after falling. I think I could redistribute batteries and use them as checkpoints, that could solve the checkpoint thing being sure that you don't miss them.

Hopefully you'll get input from other people, since I'm only one person with my own opinions. You may be right that I'm not in the target audience for the game. I do enjoy difficult games, but only when the challenge feels fair and the result of failure isn't annoying. When I die, I want to feel like I could have survived and it was my fault I failed.

I don't think that exploration works very well with unfair/unpredictable deaths, unless you have a lot of checkpoints (or you keep the batteries you got in the previous life). Why would I want to explore if it's likely I'll be killed by something I can't see coming? I've actually had this same discussion with my brother recently. A game he's working on is also set up in such a way that you can easily fail and you have to think about things first, but there are also secrets that you need to explore for which means failing over and over because you can't always know what's going to happen until you do it.

That said, if the third battery was, in fact, a checkpoint then I think I'd be mostly fine with it in your first level. Having to go through the "tutorial" area every time I die is irritating, but getting to die from a fall, learn and try again quickly is much better.

Well, I don't think are unfair or unpredictable deaths (not taking bugs into account), maybe there are a few places where you have to try, but not in general. I think if you, instead of trying the first thing it comes to your mind, take a second to take a look at the level, and use the look function, is possible to know where you will die and how you can do it without getting hurt. I agree that damage factor is a bit too high, but if you fall from too high or touch the spikes is obvious for me you will get hurt. But that is my opinion.

I'm getting more feedback too, the most dedundant topic are the checkpoints (but there are people who don't think are needed), others think puzzles regarding objects with special powers and other items should be repeatable without restarting the level, but I don't know if you reached that point.

All right. I'm not going to turn this into an argument. After all, it's your game and I am only one person with an opinion.

Anyway, I decided to give it another shot. On level 2, I dropped down alongside wall with my power meter full and tried to switch gravity (in order to stand on the wall). It didn't work and I fell to my death. Not sure what happened there.

When I went to "Continue" from level 2 later, the menu item did nothing. Is that feature just not implemented yet? If not, then maybe a level select or something would be helpful if you want other levels tested (not a permanent level select, just a debug thing to make testing simpler).

Update: Level 2 seems better, in terms of how clear it is where I should go. The first battery seems like a time-waster because of its position, but the rest is ok so far. I feel like the barrel should be in a shallow pit, so that it can't be as easily pushed against the door and make the level unbeatable. I really like the route that you take to get there. It feels good to move around on those platforms.


Update 2: Level 1-3 has some strange bugs, apparently. I hit the first arrow power-up and died instantly (happened more than once). I also died in that area from switching gravity while not very close to any spikes. Also, if a barrel is bouncing when I change gravity, it flies up and off the screen (presumeably because for a moment it has no gravity). It seems it would make sense for it to freeze in place briefly like the player does. Other than the bugs, I really liked level 1-3.

So far, I think the lengths of the levels are pretty much ideal. I still feel like there should be a checkpoint in level 1-1 so the first part doesn't need to be repeated. Players are going to die a bunch before they get used to how the game works. Levels 1-2 and 1-3 aren't nearly as annoying to me. Level 2-1 is a bit irritating, but mainly because of glitchy deaths/damage in the force field section. The timer on the bomb could be slightly longer, though (only because I take damage if I go the fast way). I had the same sort of issue in 2-1 as I did in with the barrel earlier. When I went to flip gravity near it, both the bomb and I flew off in random directions at high speed.


Update 3: At the start of level 2-2, if I run to the right, the first bit of dialogue is too quickly replaced by the second bit. That level was all right but a lot simpler (both easier and less complex) than the previous two levels, which felt a bit strange.

I noticed that in some places, like near the beginning of 2-2, you can look down and see "outside" the level (ie. you see where the ground ends).


My overall impression of the game after finishing the beta is that it's pretty good. I think level 1-1 could be really frustrating to new players, but once you learn how the game works it's enjoyable.

Thanks for going further into the game. Of course we don't need to argue, we have different points of view and that is normal.

I think you're experiencing strange bugs that not me or other people have reported, like if you look down on 2-2 and see the end of the level... I'm sure it doesn't happen to me, because I tried. Could be maybe because of the aspect ratio of your screen, that shows more? I have to investigate that.

About the continue, yes, is not working yet, could be a good idea for testing purposes to have direct access to the levels. The first level was introduced because some people told me the second one was too hard to be the first, so I decided to have that one, maybe is not properly designed as a first level.

About what you say on level 1-2, that you can make the level unbeatable, is something I got yesterday and I have one idea: what about if when you go back to a previous zone and enter again on this one, everything has been reset? I mean, the barrel is again on its default place and items are also there again... I understand that should be very annoying to restart the whole level just because that.

The bugs about dying without touching anything apparently are known, and if fact I already solved them. I will update the demo soon with some bug fixing, grammar issues... I also relaxed damage a bit. I think I will also publish a web based version of the beta for easy testing. Basically what was happening is a desync between the collision box of the player and its current visual status. Probably this evening will be updated.

I think I need to design a better first level, because maybe it doesn't show what the game is about. I was sure level design was going to be difficult for this game.

Thanks for your feedback, is being so useful.

Well I played the game too (Fine, I completed the first level), and I really liked it. The graphics were good, I did not have any bug-related issues (except, perhaps, not being able to use arrow keys in the menus. That was irritating.), and I managed to complete the first level without all-too-many retries.

On the point of fall damage, I agree with you both: the amount you get hurt from falling very short distances feels both unnatural and surprising; it's not what you´re used to from most other games. On the other hand, I see how that is an important element in the gameplay, because without it things would be way too simple. I'd say do this: Lower the minimum fall length, but restructure the levels to mirror that change. In other words, keep the damage and how it works in the game, but make the falls visually bigger, so that the player sees much more clearly "Yeah, that fall is going to kill me.". Maybe that would be accomplished by making the player smaller?

I agree with most of the points raised by quicksand, so I won't re-iterate them. But to join the checkpoint-discussion: No, I did not feel the need for additional checkpoints in level 1. It was short enough not to require checkpoints in my opinion.

And one last point on the graphics: There are games with flat colors, and there are games with textures. Both styles are fine in their own respect, but I don't like to see too much of flat colors in textured games, and vice versa. So I also don't like how the ground first has some nice kind of cobblestone-texture, but then continues with a one colored brown-ish hue. So in a nutshell: the deep ground should also have a texture.

Hello again. You know, after all my talk about fall damage in level 1, I was surprised to see that it didn't really matter in any of the other levels. The only health I lost was to weird things like bouncing off a block in 2-1 (I think it was 2-1).

The specific spot where I saw outside the level was, if I remember right, when I was near the bottom of the "elevator" (with a battery and forcefield on my right, I believe). I looked down and the camera was blocked properly so that I couldn't see below the elevator more than I should, but I could see an empty space on the left. My monitor is standard 16:9, so I wouldn't expect that to be an issue.

Resetting areas if you leave a zone could work really well. It might also be a good idea to add more platforms to areas. For example, at the end of the first level, I didn't realize in time that I had to grab the battery while falling so I was stuck right beside the exit and unable to finish the level. Having another way to get it, even if it's incredibly difficult, would be better than having to restart without dying.

On the topic of zones, is there any story reason for them to exist or is it just gameplay? I'm thinking that there should be some sort of sci-fi explanation for why they would reset when you leave them (ex. you're revisiting the same timeline you were in before or something).

A web-based version for testing sounds like a very good idea.

Yes, I think your difficulty curve needs work. The last level may actually be the easiest of them all. I think the first level could be improved fairly easily, just by adding a few little things to teach the player how the game is played (ex. let them know they can walk on walls). If I hadn't seen the trailer, I wouldn't have even known that I could switch gravity while in the air, and because games like VVVVVV didn't allow that I might not have even tried it.

As I said earlier, I think the length of each level is pretty much ideal even without checkpoints. As Salamander put it, even level 1 is "short enough not to require checkpoints". My only issue with level 1 was that replaying the first two rooms multiple times was irritating. You know, maybe the tutorial should be a completely separate item in the menu, and the game itself should just start off fairly difficult. That way, you wouldn't have to redo the difficulty curve for the game and people like me wouldn't have to play the tutorial-like areas multiple times.

Thanks Salamander. I'm working on the damage and I think I'm reaching a more balanced distance and intensity. Anyway, I encourage you to play more, because one thing I realized is the first level could give a incorrect impression about the game.

I tried to keep levels small to avoid the checkpoint thing taking into account you have to replay the entire level each time you die. I could make first levels even smaller, and make it more progressive. I have to think a lot about what is the best option here, checkpoints, shorter levels...

What you say about the ground graphics is new, no one told me that, hehe. I think is normal that grounds go to a flat color, maybe if it was black would be different? I think we see that in hundreds of games: http://cdn.akamai.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/105600/ss_579fc8cc705203a86fb4fde7257d7f549a7c2136.1920x1080.jpg?t=1380648749 (http://cdn.akamai.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/105600/ss_579fc8cc705203a86fb4fde7257d7f549a7c2136.1920x1080.jpg?t=1380648749)

Thanks for playing the game and for the feedback!

The existing of zones is gameplay, to have puzzles untouched while I'm in other parts of the level. Because switching gravity could mess puzzles up that I'm not even seeing at this moment. I could try to give them a better integration into the game, give them a reason, that is good.

I think we are agreeing on what the best improvements for the game are, that is cool. The difficulty and learning curve is really difficult for me to setup, I've been working for this around a year completely alone, and I don't have a clear perspective about what is more difficult and what is not. That is why I wanted to throw something public and receive feedback. I think I could split the "tutorial" level in two, really short ones with more info and progressive learning, so is less painful to repeat after dying.

About the last level, I put it the last one because I thought the first puzzle was going to be difficult, but maybe is true that the rest of the level is easy. I think I should improve this one.

I think I will make the continue option work, so we don't have to start from the beginning each time. I will add these improvements and make a web version with all of it.

Thanks!

Huh - yeah maybe you're right, many games do indeed fade to one color. An maybe I reacted because it wasn't black, I'm actually not sure, it just felt ugly, unfinished. But I don't think it is a very large problem anyways.

Will try to get around to play more levels. Yes, small levels don't require checkpoints, so that is a good solution to the problem. Just look at Super Meatboy - no checkpoints there, but most levels would fit on roughly four screen sizes.

So yeah, my biggest concern is still that the fall damage doesn't look intuitive - I think it can work well gameplay-wise, but it's disturbing to take damage from a fall you by all means had the right to expect would be fine.

Thanks Salamander,

I think I'm gonna try fading to black to see how it looks. I'm gonna work this week on some improvements and put the beta on the web, so you can't try it again more easily. I'll post it here.

Thanks everyone for the feedback and time spent on testing  :beer:

Hi folks,

Here you can play a web version of Invertium: http://lunar-kingdom.com/play (http://lunar-kingdom.com/play) (Shiva3D plugin required).

I fixed a few things regarding bugs, movement, fall damage... I also made a few changes on last level. I still need to work on things that will take longer, like the improvement of first levels, checkpoints...

If you could try it and tell me if is feeling better would be great.

Thanks!

I see that you tweaked the title page as I suggested. Cool.

Fall damage seems much more reasonable now. It's far easier to predict when I'll get hurt and when I won't. I think the damage could be increased slightly, actually, but the distance you can fall safely now is pretty much perfect in my opinion.

Collisions while rotating seem to work perfectly now. Nice work.


Issues:

-It's now possible in 2-1 to survive messing up the electrical field section and slamming into the floor instead of switching gravity.

-In that same section, I still hit the square block just before the first downward turn, even though I don't seem to actually touch it. That takes off a lot of health. Spikes also seem to have a sliiightly large hit-box.

-When crates treat electrical fields like solid objects, it looks a bit weird.

-On level 2-2, I fell onto the top of the line of spikes on the left of the elevator and hovered there in a falling pose until I tried to move and died.

-Also on level 2-2, I pushed the crate left while riding up the elevator and when it hit the spikes it teleported down to the health and timer powerups and 1/3 of the crate sprite was flickering in and out of existence. It stayed like that for a while, even after I pushed it around a bit.

-Having to bring the crate up the elevator is a little problematic, not because of the elevator but because it has trouble crossing zones sometimes. It got stuck on the border, frozen in time, and when I tried to push it I got hurt.

-When you switch gravity while the crate is on the conveyor belt, it speeds up (presumably from the temporary lack of proper gravity)

-At the end of level 2-2, I switched gravity in order to line up with the door and it launched me into the air slightly (to keep me from getting stuck in the wall, I guess?)

-Borders of zones don't seem well-defined. For example, in 2-2 after the elevator you can walk in a dark zone a surprising amount if you go through and then return to the elevator's zone.


I have a few small suggestions about other things:

-"huge power" should probably be something like "incredible power" or just "power"

-Start off levels with the energy meter fully charged and allow gravity switches even while the level name is on-screen. That way, for levels like 1-2, the player can just get started rather than having to wait a few seconds.

-Have platforms pause a moment before changing direction. I mean something like half a second, not a long pause.

-Making the elevator in 2-2 start off going downward would be nice. It's just a lot of pointless waiting right now. I can understand hiding it from the player, but it's a bit too much time, I think.

Hi, thanks for playing it again.

It seems I created more bugs with the new things I added, hehe. I'm gonna review them, that's the problem with the quick changes.