Someone should ask Jon Mak about how he got onto Steam with Everyday Shooter.  Maybe he'd have some insights as to the selection process.

OK, I didn't actually kill this thread did I?  Have we all just run out of ideas?

On a related note, thanks to whoever fixed up the forum layout by moving TIGJam and GDC down to the bottom to reflect their inactivity. 

I loved Untitled Story. Except for the tiny screen bit, but oh well.

You can full-screen it; that option is buried in a menu somewhere.

but in the second case you'll try again because you wont - and shouldnt - be sure about the real reason you never got a reply.

I don't think I can agree with this.  I always take no reply as rejection; why wouldn't it be?

And if you submit something to Steam that isn't perfect yet, then that's your problem; you shouldn't have submitted it yet anyway.  Very rarely does a game become that much better with a bit more development.  If the core of the game doesn't work (and I'm assuming Valve would say something to this effect), then no matter how many tweaks are made, you're still left with a bad game in the end.

The problem is that we weren't told "No" at all.  We've gotten nothing, and that's the problem here.

If Valve said no to games and provided reasons for it, or even just said "No Indie" and provided reasons, no matter how flawed, then that's their business.  But at this point they haven't given anything but mixed messages.  Both Audiosurf and Everyday Shooter are indie titles on Steam, and there are other high quality indie games that are equally qualified to be there too.  No, there are not a lot of these titles, but they are out there; I think Noitu Love 2 is a good example.

Phew...that's good.  Had me worried there for a moment.

I too would prefer to buy the game alone than to buy it on Steam, but at least Steam will introduce indie games to a larger audience. I suspect that all most gamers know about indie games is Introversion and Cave Story right now.

You're probably pretty right about that, which is really sad IMO.  I mean, think of all the people missing out on Kenta Cho's shmups, Knytt Stories, and a lot of really obscure titles that I'm missing out on too (I'm definitely looking forward to your editorship rinkuhero, as I hear you're quite the connoisseur of obscure titles).

OK, over in the Technical forum there's a poll about this, and I (as well as a few others) think the results are skewed because it's in the Technical forum, and not in a place that both programmers and more artsy types frequent.  So yeah, go and vote, because I'm really curious to see what the poll looks like with more art-focused people voting as well as the programmers.  GM is only sitting at a measly 13, whereas 37 people say they create games from scratch.

http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=3130.0

And don't post in this thread, post there; I'd be happy if this didn't get any replies.

I can't tell whether you mean that in a good way or a bad way. 

Let me put it simply...don't start that thread or else I'll call for your ban.

Ironically we've got quite a bit of negativity in this thread, and that thread would end up being quite confrontational too.

That said, I think this was a good question to ask, and I know Technical is probably a better fit than Indie Games, but on the same token, I still think the results are skewed by it being here.  I almost never visit the Technical forum, and I'll bet a lot of the other more art focused TIGers are the same.

It would be cool if you could favorite a game, and have a list of your favorites in your profile section. 

As well, it'd be cool if you could mark a game, which would put it in a queue of games in your profile/home section somewhere, so you could go back to this list and download the games later.  I browse the db a lot in OS X, and then am always trying to remember the stuff I wanted to download and check out when I boot into XP.

I'd be up for this.  Maybe not even for the reason you suggested; it would be cool to check out each others' favorites lists.

I'm all for Steam taking a more open approach to Indie Games.  That said, I'd like them to heavily filter it, because I don't see why they shouldn't.  It's more games like Noitu Love 2 and Aquaria that I'd like to see there too.  I mean, look at how well Audiosurf has done because of Steam.  I highly doubt it would be the success story that it is were it not for the Steam connection.

And in general I think that online petitions are meaningless, but if they actually print it off and take it to Valve, then I think it that in some ways it stops being online.

And anyways, if Valve thinks there's money to be made, then I expect they'll act on it.  I think the main problem is getting them to start taking indie games seriously.  I mean, if they're not even replying to emails then who knows if they've even looked at some of these high quality indie games.

I also really agree about the whole "no other option" statement.  I for one am quite leery about buying things from random sites I'm not super familiar with.  Steam has built up some trust, and if they screwed that up there would be a lot of angry people, instead of just a few.

You can create your own "engines" even in Game Maker to a degree. There are lighting engines, etc. It's also a blurry line about what to consider an engine or not -- is a level editor, created in Game Maker for a Game Maker game, a tool you create?

I've done this for a platforming game project.  I figure I'll probably want to do more GM platformers so I may as well code an "engine" to make it easier later on, instead of starting from scratch or having to copy and edit game specific code.

Hmm, and to answer your question, I quite frankly have no idea.  Blurry line indeed...

Haha, that's crazy about An Untitled Story; I know it's wrong because YMM is a GM user.

Oh, and I'm a GM user too.  I really don't have the time to start from scratch, especially when I don't think I'd get signficantly better results.

I think all the bickering in this thread really highlights and interesting dichotomy in game design.  People are usually either better artists or better mathematicians and games require both good art and good math; few people are good at both (those that are seem to have been quite successful in the indie scene).

As an artist/designer I take no joy in programming, just like I take no joy in doing CAD drawings for buildings.  It's a necessary and frustrating step in getting a design out of my head and into reality.  I think speed of development is an interesting aspect here too; being more of an artsy type, I tire of my ideas fairly quickly.  I have to get it done ASAP or I'll just stop caring because I've thought of new ideas that I care about more; I've got a slew of unfinished games to show for this.  I almost wonder if the personalities of people who enjoy programming are more suited to long term focused projects that take years to develop.  The thought of even taking six months to make a game is insane to me, and that's why I've had to stick to shorter games in order to actually get anything done.

Hmm.  It seems we have the chance to be really immature and create a whole page's worth of new Panda related topics just to catch the screen of it.  Then these topics would quickly fade away and when people checked the backlogs they would at some point run into a bunch of almost empty Panda threads.

Really, I think we can do better than three Panda topics...

[taught typing.]

You're not bashing Mario Teaches Typing were you, because that game was the shit!

I mean, come on, he taught typing.

Like a retarded R2D2.

It's all pretty hazy in my memory, so you may be right.  I just remember that by typing well he would "play" the levels.

I'm talking about the attempt at internal speaker 'music'.

Oh man, you just reminded me how a bunch of old PC games used that internal music thing.  Like Space Quest.  Ahhh...good times.

Apparently, you can put viking hats on your Panda.  And you can rub their bellies. 

http://kotaku.com/5059893/national-geographic--panda-total-panda+monium

You're probably right.  I should have just stopped with Juni.

[more smileys.]

Oh, and I realize that I forgot to say something very important: more smileys.

In fact, I think TIGS should have a smiley contest, the only guidelines being that the smileys must fit within the current smiley art style.

And since there's a Cave Story smiley, I think there should be some of other indie characters like Juni, because we're not all Cave Story junkies.  Oh, and Gomez and Cornelius should be added too, even though their respective games aren't out yet.

 :D    :D    :D    :D

 

That think is incredibly disturbing, but hilarious at the same time.  I don't think I've laughed that hard since You Have to Burn the Rope.

[taught typing.]

You're not bashing Mario Teaches Typing were you, because that game was the shit!

I mean, come on, he taught typing.

Like a retarded R2D2.

It's all pretty hazy in my memory, so you may be right.  I just remember that by typing well he would "play" the levels.