Wow he sweats a lot.

Awwww come on man!  I made it 50% less lofi!!  jk, haha, thanks! I'll take that.  I think you just don't like that lofi sound that I do.  To each his own hmmmm?? yesssss  But I like the original mix I did as much as the new one.  Overall I'm pleased.

Also, not that it matters, but there is no sidechain used in this track.  All the compression used is insert style.  Everyone keeps saying sidechain lol

I've got an unfinished track that does use tons of sidechain but I don't know if I like it.  hmmm we'll see how it goes

I listened your other songs while back, and none of them has as much weirdo filters and they work great. It is really rare occasion when a piece needs such, especially when the song, sounds and compositions can stand on its own feet - like in this case.

It is much better now. But I still feel it has too much compression and sidechain, also some other unnecessary lofi/noise filters. I like the composition a lot!

There is mostly nothing chiptunish in this as far as I can tell. The compositions of this piece is exceptionally good, but oh my it sounds like you routed this through a lot of very bad filters?

Sounds like the original has been recorded in 4bit quality, then through VHS and C-cassette player and vinyl, and then massive compression has been applied, and then finally through a telephone... is this a joke?

I'd REALLY would like to hear the original song without this horrible audio quality...

The solutions for punishing from wetness depends on the game itself.


In normal setting you would punish for example like this:

- Whatever you carry, gains little bit more weight, thus making walking harder and more energy consuming.
- You'd get cold. Means you lose more energy and need more food.
- Later, you develop sickness like cold, rash (poisonous water?), or even parasites. These lead into death in worst case scenario, but at least makes everything again more difficult.
- Any water sensitive equipment goes defunct.
- Without swimming skill, you drown and die. Also if too much equipment or bad clothing, you could also drown even with swimming skills.
- If the swimming distance is long, you lose energy ans might drown again.
- If the water is too cold, you develop hypothermia and die of drowning.
- If the water is too hot, well you boil I guess.

The "graphics and sounds don't matter if u hav gud gamplay" school of thought just seems to be a recent development arising out of the "retro" phenomenon which also manages to completely misrepresent old games. Almost all of the best games in the past not only played well but also had great graphics/sounds for their time (many still do today, actually) and tried to take full advantage of what the programmers and artists knew about the systems (including the imperfections of the TV displays of the time, e.g. dithering or Vectorman NTSC-blur transparency), the designers didn't just cover their awesome stages in minimalistic programmer art (there are some exceptions e.g. roguelikes and ASCII tiles but they're uncommon.) Obviously the actual interactions the player has with the game's systems take precedence in most games but saying they're all that's important is pretty dumb, graphics have always been a major part of videogames (and sound too, after the very early stages of the artform.) You can argue that they're just window dressing, which they are in the end, but they're pretty important window dressing that can make a huge difference to the game's overall quality. I can't really relate to the people saying they don't care about aesthetics, and I'm not sure I even really believe what they're saying is true for them.

Used to be like that, but then I got old.

Try closing your eyes and playing most games. Even with crummily drawn or basic looking graphics you still have a responsibility to communicate with the player.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwgPDWm41qo

Nowadays, when playing a game, I hardly even notice or care about the graphics and focus on the gameplay. Like other people said, you truly recognize the problem when people start doing it wrongly, making bad pixel art.

This is exactly what I have been experiencing as well. Why? I don't now, maybe because in the end games for me are about mechanics, controls, logic challenges, and reaction stimulus. I also keep sounds in bigger value than graphics.

It's all well and good to focus on gameplay, and obviously you have to have this, but that shouldn't be a legitimate reason for diminishing what should be a collective pursuit of better holistic gaming experiences. If we're constantly striving for more complex and unique games, why should the art play second fiddle? I've seen a wealth of information on making superb graphics and assets with free software. Pixel and otherwise.

I'm going back a way, but elk's original point (the one that sparked Kramlack's response) is one with serious merit, and wasn't an entitled pompous remark at all. He was talking about quality in the art that is produced for a game. To follow this just look at Derek's post about Konjak's game/ that mugen fighting game/ Owl Boy. Those are games that have managed to use pixel art effectively while still retaining great mechanics. As a game designer, you should always strive to push the medium forward, in all fields. If you're going to use "lofi" or retro art, it should be done with intention and not as a crutch, because you've deemed it easiest.

If you're a designer and you're someone who doesn't care about how a game looks, go find someone who does, and convince them to help you. Just look at the art forums and see the staggeringly impressive gamut of work that could be put to really good use, in all mediums. And they're just as passionate about good games.

Game designers should be just as concerned with the quality of the art (pixel or otherwise) as the artists should be concerned with good game mechanics. 

You just lost too much time to explain the most obvious, but I'll say this:

Graphics should serve the purpose that game has. Those are good graphics. Bad graphics don't serve the purpose and or they distract from the actual game. Yes there are genres like graphic novel games, where obviously graphics has quite a important part, and also should be artistically high quality. But at least games I usually play, graphics dont play big role. As what I originally said while replying to vinheim3.

Having good graphics, is always matter of time and money. Like everything is. Frankly, not every indie production can possibly excel in all areas of game development. It is lot more acceptable to sacrifice graphics and sound/music, than good gameplay mechanics. But still, graphics whatever they are, should serve the purpose as well as possible.

Nowadays, when playing a game, I hardly even notice or care about the graphics and focus on the gameplay. Like other people said, you truly recognize the problem when people start doing it wrongly, making bad pixel art.

This is exactly what I have been experiencing as well. Why? I don't now, maybe because in the end games for me are about mechanics, controls, logic challenges, and reaction stimulus. I also keep sounds in bigger value than graphics.

if it looks good who cares

ok i was going to respond to a few other posts but this just fucking says it all

It might be the final truth in any aesthetics, but still, the conversation getting there is much more interesting and important.

Hand-drawn or painted graphics are something we need to see more of.

Disagree.

Where you can see hand-drawn or painted graphics? Everywhere since beginning of human. Everywhere, all the time. At least let the games look like GAMES. That being pixel art, vector graphics, 3D,... To hell with the hand drawn crap.

Seems like in the long run in threads like this, people start to not read the OP. But thanks anyway, I'll note every game down.

But let the suggestions roll on!

[Games should be "new or exclusive titles"]

Reading the gaming platform poll, I saw that many said there are lots of good games published for PS2. However, my experience has been that it has the largest collection of crap games than in any console ever. I bought PS2 when it came, and found out later that I've been using it as a DVD player. And that also pretty much killed my console gaming as well, haven't own any console after that.

But it is still there, connected to my TV, and working like charm. Now I want some serious game suggestions now that those games are probably cheap as hell, if I can find them.


But I have this one rule:

Games should be "new or exclusive titles", not continuum in any old franchise. Otherwise, it would be too easy to list FF's, GTA's and EA sports games, etc.

Please, any suggestions appreciated. Genre doesn't matter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03flQgiewOY

 
(I will list all the suggestions down and next time I go to store in my town which sells used PS2 games, I buy what I can get in reasonable price)

[BELIEVABLE REALITY]

Well, looking at your avatar I find it hard to take your OP seriously:
Yet you complain about majority of games using pixel art, and then you present, frankly, quite bad example of pixel art in your avatar. Might be thou it was the point. I start to feel that the problem lies not in making pixel art, but like Caruso said, making very bad pixel art. And yes I've seen a lot that here and in majority of indie games.

So what made true vintage pixel art great? It is simple, artists at that time used all the skills and technical gimmickry as possible, to represent BELIEVABLE REALITY in pixelated form. You can argue with this, but it is a fact in most cases. That makes the art unique, it should be look like somewhat real, but obviously is not because massive pixelated restrictions. Some well known examples that differentiate from this are Super Marios, Lolos, Bubble Bobble... But, if you are a game designer, you see how these games actually are not about graphics at all!

Other function for pixel art back then and now, is symbolism. I feel that really lofi graphics like 8-16 pixel sprites are more about symbolic representation, than about creating any reality. That almost always works very well because symbolism is practical and has been used throughout history. I wish to see more of that. Majority of bad pixel art fall between, not quite believable reality but not symbolic either. Good example is that avatar of yours.

And yes, it is true that its easier, faster and even more fun to make lofi pixel art than anything else. It might be about laziness, but mostly about time restrictions in small productions. And you don't have to have any drawing or other artistic skills to make practical, symbolic lofi pixel art. So it suites for plain coders too. Also software to do that, is FREE.

Artists who use 50 hours for 8x8 sprite to make it convey emotion, i'm sorry, nobody cares.  If we start to talk about hand drawn 128x128 sprites, we will need army of skilled artists to make anything great out of it. Or one autistic.

No, minimalism does not equal increased challenge.

If Shadow Colours outside in the day time should have a blue tint, does that mean that shadows inside when completely lit by artificial lighting should have more of a orange or yellow hue?

Depends of the color of the artificial light, and especially its K-value unless we talk about  colored light by purpose (which I assume).

I mean for mainstream/console gaming

e.g. some people like playing Skyrim on PC rather than XBox360 because of better graphics, so in this poll, they'd choose PC over XBox

if you meant the usage of the term "PC", should it be "Computer"?

Maybe you should replace "console" with "gaming platform" if you intend to have PC/computer as option.

PC is not console.

If anyone hasn't read this article, they really should.

I was surprised how nothing in that article came by surprise.

Someone with vision has to lead the charge.  Others should be allowed to pitch ideas to this person, but that person should be the ultimate arbiter of what ultimately gets put into the game.  Just poking around this forum should illustrate the fact that there are many who talk but few who do.  Don't let the priorities get skewed.     

I was coming to this thread presenting this idea, but thanks for saving my time typing all that 

Communism is ideology, dictatorship is practical solution.

I think 8bit-era VGM composers (well the GOOD ones anyway) were more creative because they weren't trying to make music according to the "chiptune" formula but were simply soundtracking videogames. As soon as something becomes a formula, the original spark of creativity tends to disappear.

Well said