continuing again specifically on this:

My point was really that the "indie games" label was not ever meant to be used as something to hide behind. If anything, it was actually created to cultivate a community based around the idea that games should be created for pleasure and to pleasure. Many indies want to focus on the interactivity and mechanics of games, as opposed to the production values and business of games. The idea was that a small, indie team that was free of the pressure to sell large quantities of copies could focus on what mattered to them in games - for lots of indies, that's still mechanics.

the "indie games" label. as you continue to define this label to fit solely for developers who are into making quirky mechanical gimmick platformers as you just did in this post, thats what indie games continue to become. continue saying this, it's hurting everyone who wants to make games without this weird ass thought of everyone thinking you're supposed to be making x y and z. seriously HOW could it be INDEPENDENT if we all fucking think we have to be anti-"production values" and all think that "mechanics" are the most important thing in games? it sounds like a small issue but every game yu promote on the front page, every ideals yu bring up, everything yu do shapes indie games. yu really are the "face of indie games." if they were to make the defining film or book on WHAT IS INDIE GAMES and THE HISTORY OF INDIE GAMES, the first person they will come to is YOU and what you say will be what everyone remembers - that indie game devs make fucking cave stories and indie gamers were all hippies.

this is basically how you start your posts:

The fact that you don't see how this could be applied to icycalm is sad. It presupposes that icycalm is always right, just like anything else every written by people who follow him mindlessly.

I feel like you icycalmers lack a lot of imagination, which is why you need complex systems to think at all. Without the rules in place for you you'd have no idea what to do.

Remember that time milk totally flipped out because he couldn't come up with anything insightful... and then he claimed he didn't have time to post here anymore... and then he started to backpeddle and excuse icy for being so young... and then he posted something about how a "game studies" course once used icycalm's work alongside Tim Rogers and Jason Rohrer work... and then he came back and flipped out again...

Yeah, good going, guys. I can really see how icycalm's philosophy can only be understood by the highest echelons of human society. You're really giving it a lot of credit here.

--

I will address this specifically, actually. Because it's a sore point with the icycalmers. And it's obviously not obvious or else you wouldn't need a book to understand it.

You say that we are indie because we cannot make it any other way. I say we are indie because we derive great pleasure from it and I am suggesting that perhaps it is you that must react to us because you cannot make it any other way. Yes, perhaps it would be hard for you to do what we do, as inferior as you seem to think it is.

The indies are actually the ones who are telling you to think for yourself. Not just think, but create something independently of meaning to yourself and perhaps to others. And they're "telling" you this by drawing, by making music, by programming, by writing, etc. They're acting on their own impulses. They're also the ones taking the criticism.

The guy who's telling you he's the Messiah is the one trying to subjugate your mind.

My point was really that the "indie games" label was not ever meant to be used as something to hide behind. If anything, it was actually created to cultivate a community based around the idea that games should be created for pleasure and to pleasure. Many indies want to focus on the interactivity and mechanics of games, as opposed to the production values and business of games. The idea was that a small, indie team that was free of the pressure to sell large quantities of copies could focus on what mattered to them in games - for lots of indies, that's still mechanics.

great, indie ideals. yea mechanics big fucking deal. honestly tigsource was pretty much your "cult" at the start, i still want to see that article you had on the front page about how you were "growing bored of mainstream games" and blablabla, all your radical indie ideals influenced pretty much everyone here. many people broke free from that stupid bullshit but the damage was done, thats the perception of "indies" now. all the big indies that are asked by journalists to define indie? they hear these ideals, and now it's the general perception. it is really not icycalm or his "followers" fault that they view "indies" under this one giant umbrella of artfags. whatever jon blow, phil fish, notch, and any other igf monsters say IS what indie is. a tainted word.

i'm just goin to say it. all of derek's posts have literally been "why don't you ___ ___ ____"
i'd be pretty fucking frustrated too

Eva, I know you don't like me, but that's not true at all.

nope, flip that

wat gams u play

i'm just goin to say it. all of derek's posts have literally been "why don't you ___ ___ ____"
i'd be pretty fucking frustrated too

fair enough bro

i'll post the other negative-sounding posts from the others then for "fairness"
apart from being called an "it" i'm not offended by these.

Also, yeah, she's pretty much a drama whore from my understanding. It sounds like she has some valid points but her sheer stupidity in expressing them defeats the purpose. For example, she'll make an account, and then get angry and say she's leaving tigsource, delete it, only to come back again the next day, and apparently this has happened multiple times.

She complained when I called her out on spamming (http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=17610.msg507449#msg507449) with 'how am i gon get to level 10', but when you constantly make and delete your own accounts, it's sort of stupid to say that (even in joking around).

So between all the bullshit she brings up, I'd say that's what gave her the bad rep.

i already mentioned this to her in other threads, so i'm not talking behind her back per se, but she's constantly butthurt for tig's 'murdering' other mak gam communities -- that kind of gets on my nerves.

Since I'm uncertain in calling eva a he or a she, i'll use "it" instead.

I never really got what's it's point is. Confusing and unchangable word reduction in rather inside-demanding manner, it doesn't give much information I can refer to as form of actually processible content. Could be just me not beeing interested in the topics it was involved in (I really don't care about anything except what atleast I'm involved in). So far I was only able to see it as some kind of weird spammy mascot popping up here from time to time and then burying itself deep in the roots of miracle and hilariousity.

In the end, who's not like that. Either in an abstract or concrete way.

I just don't see why the shit she says should be excused just because people have had cordial chats with her. If I suppose Eva is actually much more intelligent than 95% of TIGsource (which includes me, I suppose), how am I supposed to know that? From these gems? (http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?action=profile;u=43501;sa=showPosts;start=0)

Oh, and what, I should be ashamed for what I've said? I'm not asking for eva to be banned, or saying we should be meaner to her, just that she types in a way that's poorly written and purposely aggressive, and that she shouldn't get a free ride for doing it. That's a courtesy not extended to many new people on the forums.

I'm pretty sure he's not judging her claims but evaluating your, dare I say, "extraordinary claims". And you know that scientific mantra, right? Sure, you can say there is intelligence beneath, but it's not apparent at all form her pots.

Writing like an Internet kiddo is not a good thing in any way. It either says that the person is not interested in communicating his/her ideas properly or that the person is Internet kiddo who wants to get some attention. That coupled with frequent change in her writing style which is often associated with shift between blunt insult and lolpost doesn't make her intentions look genuine.

She also tends to insult people out of nowhere. Maybe she is joking, I don't know, maybe she doesn't mean it really, but how is newcomer supposed to know that? She insulted me for no reason for example, which I found abrupt but which I tolerated because I knew it's Eva. What if the person in the question was a genuine newcomer?

Facts:
-If eva hates indie videogames what the fuck is he doing on the independant fucking gaming source?
-eva is not "more intelligent than most people on Tigsource", unlike what paul-eres-the-god-with-infinite-knowledge-and-intelligence would like us to think (I've seen this crazy idea repeated in several posts already)
-CliffyB is the videogame equivalent of seth green

There was some shit said by others that was fairly on par with what he said and I am not seeing anyone pointing any fingers at them.

i have a copy of the thread with the last post being this:

actually eva has made many games and finished them; i even sent you a zip of them once and linked to several of her game threads when you made a similar claim in the past, but you refused to even try to play the games in the zip because it goes against your idea that eva doesn't make games

and none of the posts come even close to phubans's shit in offending me with the exception of rdein's but he's like 12 or somethin

in reality she IS a man. there is proof of that (dont ask me though, hoho)

ps: watch as she gets to level 5 so fast, see this thread and deletes her account. you know, she has been posting like mad just so she can see the secret stuff where people talking behind others' backs

[I'M not ___ ___ and ____.]

phubans u can save the reply.

at least I'M not ___ ___ and ____. i love how everyone is white knighting, i obviously didn't do anything wrong!

Now you just come off as a bitter, jealous asshole who personally attacks people and stirs the pot for his own sad amusement.

and what did you just do? you've got to be fucking kidding
HAHA WHATEVER I WAS JSUT TALKING SHIT BEHIND SOMEONE'S BACK, NO BIG DEAL. BUT IF YOU MISTREAT ME THEN HEH, YOU'RE SO BELOW ME.

rofl, I just love how of all the people who "talked shit" or whatever about eva, I'm the only one you guys are so focused on mobbing for it. Just goes to show you the truth of my words!

talk to ME then you fucking shit. wait you can't respond because you can't be ever fucking wrong. your stupid ego and your shitty misogyny

[OBVIOUSLY THE PROBLEM IS DEFINITELY NOT YOU TALKING SHIT]

phubans ya talk shit about me and then you talk about not being appreciated enough AND you blame it on someone leaking the information because OBVIOUSLY THE PROBLEM IS DEFINITELY NOT YOU TALKING SHIT but it's SOMEONE ELSE LEAKING YOUR SENSELESS BULLSHIT

First of all, there are no girls on the Internet. But that old adage aside, it's particularly true to the game industry. The number of male-to-female transgenders far outweighs the amount of true biofems.

My suspicion is that Eva is a manifestation of Paul Eres. I've joked that Eva is actually a 12-year-old neighborhood girl that Eres killed and wears the skin of when he's posting as Eva, but that might not be far from the truth, without the whole macabre element of having killed anyone.

Regardless of who Eva is, it's pretty obvious that s/he is indeed a useless, no-talent attention whore who brings absolutely nothing of value to the community and is only pardoned by the fact that everyone assumes the person behind the Eva account looks like this:

(http://www.sexinasiareport.com/manila-amateurs-com-011.jpg)

...Or at least I do

Well, unlike Eva, I actually make games, work in the industry, offer insights to people's questions, create interesting threads and topics, and am active in the IRL portion of the community. Can the same be said of Eva? I think that's why s/he irritates me so much; you would mention me in the same breath as her when regarding trolls, but I actually have shit to back myself up with. Eva doesn't, but s/he gets a free ride under the assumption that it's a female, and that kind of double standard is disgusting, albeit typical, especially of a community where men are so desperate for female interaction.

i'll just leave his posts here again
whatevs

lates!1

u mad cuz u bad eva?

fuck off you stupid piece of shit

wasnt fear majorly scripted

and yea halo does the group thing too and u can identify it a lot easier
also an interestin articl http://aigamedev.com/open/reviews/halo-ai/

ive played the shadow of chernobyl a few times and always die at the start so i wouldnt know

btw the only good dynamic ai in a video game is still halo and only halo

k

in reality she IS a man. there is proof of that (dont ask me though, hoho)

ps: watch as she gets to level 5 so fast, see this thread and deletes her account. you know, she has been posting like mad just so she can see the secret stuff where people talking behind others' backs

OH WOOPS

Regardless of who Eva is, it's pretty obvious that s/he is indeed a useless, no-talent attention whore who brings absolutely nothing of value to the community and is only pardoned by the fact that everyone assumes the person behind the Eva account looks like this:
--

Well, unlike Eva, I actually make games, work in the industry, offer insights to people's questions, create interesting threads and topics, and am active in the IRL portion of the community. Can the same be said of Eva? I think that's why s/he irritates me so much; you would mention me in the same breath as her when regarding trolls, but I actually have shit to back myself up with. Eva doesn't, but s/he gets a free ride under the assumption that it's a female, and that kind of double standard is disgusting, albeit typical, especially of a community where men are so desperate for female interaction.

no comment

Facts:
-If eva hates indie videogames what the fuck is he doing on the independant fucking gaming source?

i can keep answering this but as dustin says i've mentioned it enough, and paul answers it in the very topic

Can we get Burunduk to come to TIGS? He's my favorite synesthete.

busy with reviving RS.

I just don't see why the shit she says should be excused just because people have had cordial chats with her. If I suppose Eva is actually much more intelligent than 95% of TIGsource (which includes me, I suppose), how am I supposed to know that? From these gems? (http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?action=profile;u=43501;sa=showPosts;start=0)

Oh, and what, I should be ashamed for what I've said? I'm not asking for eva to be banned, or saying we should be meaner to her, just that she types in a way that's poorly written and purposely aggressive, and that she shouldn't get a free ride for doing it. That's a courtesy not extended to many new people on the forums.

it's fine, i agree.
i just assume when posting that people who WANT to read my post don't care too much about picking off grammar and vitrol or whatever other words ya can come up with. i don't care too much about perception or appealing to anyone, it's about getting the message across from point a to point b.

- could you elaborate on the western vs. eastern mentality re: bosses for me paul?

you'll notice modern-western games moved away from nintendo-like(i'll refer to it as this from now on) design, such as pattern-based ai, the expectations of difficulty curves, lives, bosses, etc. there's an expectation from gamers who are used to nintendo-like games. this is where i explained to paul about halo reach's finale:
the ending is basically noble6 on a turret shooting down incoming ships and then *insert art-game-like sequence spoiler here*. it's anti climatic. wheres the Big Bad Boss at the end? you expect the big bang, there is none.
there is no such thing as a boss in halo.

but it's very important to people who grew up with nintendo-like games, it's almost a golden rule of design. someone mentioned in the design forum on tigforums, asked about ai in platformers, where are they? why are they all goombas or koopas?

There is a lot of goodmouthing actually, nobody hate you
: P

edit:
They are talking about the fact you antagonize WITHOUT a reason, that's all.

yea made this topic too early, i'm still reading up the indieleaked thread

keep badmouthing me in ur silly hidden forums. always a good deed eh