[MINECRAFT!]

This is a very early test of an Infiniminer clone I'm working on.

It's an early test of a clone, and he calls it such.

He doesn't say This is MINECRAFT!, my infiniminer clone -- it's a video of something (I think that's from a video? even if it's not, it's fine.) he's messing around with; he says he's working on a clone, and that's cool. I'm assuming his intention was never to claim it as his own if he ended up simply making a clone: it was likely just an idea that interested him enough to make his own engine to play around with.

Anyway, he never even got to finishing his infiniminer clone. It was an early test of a clone, and that early test branched into his own game.

[the future.]

SHOULD I MAKE A THREAD ABOUT THIS?

YES!!! (also you should play it)

I started playing System Shock 2 again the other day and god I love that game. I played it when I was little and it destroyed me and then I played it again a handful of years ago and I kicked its ass!

Something amazing happened (I had an amazing experience!) and it made me like five times more excited just to talk about the game and I don't know why. Quickly I will organize my thoughts into a few points.

1. Story Things; Scary Things; Environmental Things

System Shock 2 has an optional story told in voice overlaid on top of you doing stuff, and text you can read if you like to go along with it. The story unfolds as you explore, and the stories that people tell often link back to previous disconnected storybits, or in many cases are actually relevant to what's happening in the game! (more in next point)

It has ghosts that pop up to add to the story and the spooky factor. I've never been terrified playing this game, but I have been sufficiently creeped out at a few points. It's also the first game I'm aware of in which your character-story expectations are really subverted.

But the story is on the sidelines, even if a little less so than in other games.

2. Freedom; a 'Real World'

First I'll start with how the 'story' links to the game in a way I've not seen in many games. As you progress, you grab audio logs from tables, dropped on floors: These are messages people make to themselves or to each other. Voice messages, of course, because it's the future. It doesn't make that much sense that they're lying around but they're awesome.

Many games try to tell stories only through their settings, and I think this is the best way it's ever been done: everyone is already dead (well, just about everyone -- either that or turned into weird shit) and you're sifting through the near-past, which relates very closely to the future.

Audio logs sometimes tell you vital information: "We've been researching stuff to kill that alien stuff infecting the ship" explains what those flasks are for (so does SHODAN, of course, as it's a vital goal). Other times they tell you things such as non-vital door codes: if you're not paying attention, you might just never find where that door code goes. Yet other times they warn you of things to come, or simply foreshadow, or provide interesting background. You start fighting psychic monkeys (holy hell there's no way to talk about things in this game without them sounding ridiculous: ALIEN ZOMBIES!) and audio logs talk about (not in a cutscene or anything, mind you) the monkeys' rise to protest, then psi powers.



Right. Then, there's the world that has tons of stuff to interact with. There are so many doors that you never need to hack; so many paths that lead to dead ends. There are rooms filled with radiation and useful items that are completely optional. The game generally has you meandering about the decks of the ship -- there's backtracking, but the spaces are small and only sparsely populated enough with enemies: as opposed to, say, a metroidvania where enemies spawn in the same places every time, you might have no idea where you'll run into an enemy on your way back. You might be tempted to enter that radiation-flooded room this time, having found a bunch of rad hypos.

3. Bioshock

Let's not talk about Bioshock. Having called itself a 'spiritual successor' to SS2, I was incredibly disappointed by it. DONE

4. CHOICE & CHALLENGE

What you do can fuck you right over, and it's awesome.

In general, there are also a lot of choice paths you can make and they're all pretty viable.

Doors that can be hacked simply can't be hacked if you don't have enough hacking skill.

Weapons can't be used if you don't have the appropriate skill, but it soon becomes abundantly clear that you wouldn't be able to do everything and that's great: with the points you're given, there's more than enough room for experimentation. At the same time, though, you're given hard choices here and there (as well as a reason to try the game again -- even if just playing the game wouldn't be enough).

Okay, last thing. I've been rambling too much about this game. I wrote a story here about something amazing that happened thanks to the way resources work in System Shock 2: I've never played a game with more interesting limited-resource management.

1. Limited inventory forces you to pick and choose what you keep with you -- and while it's not tiny, it's not huge, either. You'll definitely have to drop that hazard suit, maybe, or perhaps one or both of those pistols.

2. Ammo is limited and weapons break down. Using weapons, even with tons of ammo, is a tough choice. They degrade over time and while maintenance tools aren't rare enough that it becomes frustrating (at least, not for me!) it makes guns valuable enough that using them feels like a satisfying decision.

There are also multiple kinds of ammunition; 'standard' is most common, and the other kinds are way better against their devoted targets. (i.e. armour-piercing vs robots)

3. Healing (health, radiation, toxins) isn't too expensive, and revival is really inexpensive too. However, it's still limited: your health doesn't regenerate over time, and I'm glad it doesn't.



Every resource (except for melee attacks) is limited -- regardless of what you do, you're going to whittle down your resources here and there. There's a constant cycle, though; you'll find a brand new pistol in perfect condition just as you're losing hope because your shotgun broke (or something. this never actually happened to me. but it would if you didn't put points into, for example, maintenance!)

I HAVE TO STOP TYPING >_< Does anyone else love this game a lot? I imagine someone will bring up Deus Ex, which I'll probably try again at some point.

what is with me today and writing huge, messy posts ._.

[before it's sold and presented as its own full game]

I had an interesting chat with some Toronto game devs; it wasn't about anything in particular, but rather about cloning in general and how it's generally a shitty thing. It was also about how one of us thought there were far too many game devs who seem entirely okay with cloning.

Anyway, here we go. I'm going to list four games. In my eyes, a single pair of them have an ORIGINAL-CLONE relationship although many of them have been accused of being such.

INFINIMINER

MINECRAFT

TERRARIA

FORTRESSCRAFT



MINECRAFT IS AN INFINIMINER CLONE was the first accusation to be thrown around, and it's entirely false! To this day I have no idea how people cling to that argument.

Infiniminer was an interesting team-based competitive mining thing with lava and explosions. People built crazy stuff, and while it wasn't the goal, they did it all the same.

Minecraft started out as a vague little engine that took from Infiniminer the platform on which it laid: 3d and block breaking, making. It was a big deal, sure, but even in creative mode it had a focus on building, and a wide variety of blocks, and pretty generated maps.



I don't even really want to talk about Terraria/Minecraft. I don't enjoy Terraria at all but that's just me (really, it's just me). They share even fewer similarities than the above two.



OKAY AND THEN THERE'S FORTRESSCRAFT

Here is what I actually care about at all. This game released as a clone of Minecraft: its style is exactly the same. It stole, blatantly, just about everything that made Minecraft successful despite planning 'in future chapters' to add new stuff.



This is a bad thread about me venting because I'm not yet ready to send the guys who made FortressCraft a "you guys are basically terrible people I hope you know that" e-mail.



To make this thread an actual thing for discussion, read this!

I think cloning is terrible, regardless of how much success it acquires. However, when something like FortressCraft makes a million bucks, it kinda infuriates me to see a clone do well.

If it's a "clone" that has its own idea and simply takes cues from another? Cool. That's fine, and not nearly a clone. In the case of Terraria, it's clear that even if the guy was inspired by Minecraft, there are a lot of elements of the game's own. It also plays radically differently. (Same with Infiniminer -> Minecraft, really, just without the perspective & dimension shift)

Hell, even if it's a "clone" that expands upon an idea -- before it's sold and presented as its own full game, not 'planned for future developments' -- that's cool, too. Take an idea and, even if it starts off as clone, if you take it in a nice, new direction? Even if it sucks, if you're trying your own thing, I support.



If it's a "clone" that is a copy of a game with inconsequential added details (i.e. fortresscraft has ropes and hand-held torches from the trailer i saw a million years ago, which are incredibly minor details in the grand design of things) or even with lost design (i played the worst clone of Star Guard (amazing game) a while back, called Space-Ninja or something. it was horrible), it has no purpose. It should not exist, and it should not be sold for moneys.

It's ironic and disappointing and clearly makes sense that the people who do this kind of cloning are generally in it for the money.



Don't stand for the mindless, heartless kind of cloning that exists and seems wholly accepted. Do you care about it at all? Am I overreacting? I don't think so: if we don't take a mental stand against the bane of creativity that is cloning -- we, who gather around games because we actually care (in our own little ways) -- I don't know who will.

(hahaha this one is the worst)

I'd just consider theme when deciding the Overall score, and consider knocking a star off if it misses it by a long way.

I feel that the theme is given more to inspire and provide impetus, rather than be a straight-jacket around one's creativity. I don't think it's important enough to be rated.

Ah, but don't you think these two points are kind of contrary?

By keeping 'theme' a separate item, it can be graded separately from the rest of the game.

If the majority of people feel the same way about theme but theme doesn't exist as a separate item, you might find people docking points off the overall whereas with theme as a separate item a game with poor theme can simply be given a poor theme score and the overall can continue to function as the general pleasantness that the game delivers.


I don't really like the term "enjoyment" as it's too close to "fun" but exactly as intangible. It also doesn't really bring to mind "humor" (not that I think that's a broad enough category?).

Some suggestions as replacements for one or both: Charm or Emotion. Kind of vague on their own, though.



shruugg

Can you increase air friction

or decrease air acceleration

please D:



( bazookas leave a lot more tiny islands which I am having a hell of a time landing on ;~; )

I've been playing a bunch of stone soup.

With my little knowledge of both it and of nethack, I'm gonna work on flavouring the floors (once, you know, I even get to the point of having multiple floors).

The screen will probably have to scroll (originally the plan was to have all levels be one-screen), though the camera control method is certainly up in the air at the moment.

rouge-like?

i feel fury

This is really fun! When I first saw it I started to have anxiety and flashbacks to bitter childhood memories of blocks that could be pushed and not pulled, but the manipulation in this is pretty intuitive and amazing.

Lovely, lovely. Yes, I'm fond of this extended form of block-manipulation (for some time I did not like the idea of it, but having added it, having followed another's promises, I am now truly a believer).

It's a good thing there are no green blocks...

Better start up your bitter childhood memories engine again.

NEW LIGHTING.

It likely will not work this way in the real game! There will be various forces at work, but you will probably carry a very small light on yourself, if any. But you'll probably carry a 1-radius light.

Don't worry about things poofing outside of your vision. Don't you worry.

I promise this will actually be a game eventually, rather than a silly block-moving engine thing.

It could be pretty fast, even if turn-based -- and it'll likely be tweakable (too fast, though, and you might accidentally move two spaces!)

Did you notice enemies moving a little further during a turn in which you move stuff around?

SOMETHING NEW.

Hello, colourful level!

Enemies of all different speeds seem to be interacting well together.

Also, while I'm not 100% sure whether it'll remain, slow fuckeling is implemented (it speeds everything up (in a not entirely realistic way)) while you are busy fuckeling brocks.



... Also, how is movement speed? Does it feel weird to you?

[ONGGG]

I'm just using dropbox and I don't think I have very much control over that.

WRONGGG

Put an html file in your dropbox's public folder.

Watch the magic unfold.

(For example, while I do have a website, I often simply host things on my dropbox. HERE IS ONE SUCH THING. The html syntax is pretty simple, too.)

Believe it or not, the biggest lag before I fixed it used to be when they were all static -- i.e. stuck on each other, with no room to move.

Inanimate, have faith! Roguelikes prominently feature leveling up. Secret revealed :3

i added some enemy things. They don't hurt you, so they're just kinda cute. It's also a stress test. Let me know if it laaags.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4452540/BLOCKFUCKER.swf - also located in first post

here you go, namragog.


ARROWS

Z X C SPACE all do the same thing


-> fix before i go to bed; trying to move somewhere impossible while dragging a block no longer causes weird effects.

UPDATED. WHY IS IT SO FUN TO DRAG AND PUSH AND BUILD???

[I will have committed the gravest offense.]

Yes, he's completely serious about banning a well-behaved, reasonable and awesome member of the community because he doesn't make a game.

I will have committed the gravest offense.

Why don't you have a jelly-filled doughnut?
NOTHING beats a jelly-filled doughnut

how did I not respond to this? IT'S TRUE. They're more awesome than everyone here combined.



'Body.as' is the parent of everything with 'WorldOfBodies.as' acting as puppetmaster.
There will be a great grid of numbers and things.

But where to save the grid?

Come back next episode to find out. I'm talking to myself. I still don't know. aaahhh



The official name for a full round of actions (you press a direction, everything else decides upon its action, go through all actions with priority) will be a phase.

Enemies will 'co-operate' -- or ones that are friendly with one another will be, anyway -- and will not bump into one another. The slower or less lucky one will just choose a new action once its action has been confirmed not possible!


TIME TO FIGURE SPEED OUT FOR REALS

Your speed is always '1', but enemies' relative speeds change I think :x

Code:

0:         ..X
1:      X
2-:     X  ..X
2:      X X
2+:   X X
3-:     X X  ..X
3:      X X X
3+:   X X X

Okay, so, let's explain.

"..X" represents a half-move, meaning "2-" is more like "1.5" (and 0 is more like 0.5)

You make a move at the very end of the turn, then the player makes a decision, then the remainder of your move has priority over everything (because it really came from the previous turn!)

When you're able to make a move, you will animate? 'Standing still' will only be applicable for 0-speed enemies, though... hm


Anyway, I am going to code in five priorities of movement, to be carried out in this order:

the 'BEFORE' array [] (this is the only array that must be run through backwards - that is, something with three items in this array will have two moves before something that has just one)
the 'PLAYER' array
the 'AFTER' array [] (each enemy's first move will go here; maybe their second too)
the 'SLOW' move (an enemy can only have one of these)

If the player moves slowly (for example, when pushing boxes!) then:

Each enemy goes through its BEFORE and AFTER moves.
Player pushes.
Each enemy goes through its BEFORE and AFTER moves again.

Code:

normal

B P A B P A
  * ^ ^ *

slowed-player

B A P B A B A P B A
    * ^ ^ ^ ^ *

transition

B P A B A P B A B P A
     |         |

Odd how if I go with this, 'before' moves have no extra weight to it.
I don't want 'after' to move more than 'before' in any given phase section (i.e. 'before' player or 'after' player's move)

Otherwise it'd be B-P-A-B-A, wait, that's fine!

Code:

transition
 mov |   push  | mov
B P A B P A B A B P A
    ^ 2   ^ ^ ^ 4

REMINDER TO SELF:

I want all moves to occur at the same time, visually.
Before and after moves (i.e. interruptions) should all make sense.

It's going to be hard to simulate the whole thing beforehand though when I've got to account for block vanishing too! hm

I AM BEING TOO COMPLICATED I WILL PROBABLY ONLY HAVE THREE SPEEDS

SLOW, NORMAL, FAST

PLAYER MOVES AT 'NORMAL' BY DEFAULT.

SLOW: half move

NORMAL: one move

FAST: two moves?

When the player pushes a block, all enemies are increased by a speed category. Nobody moves before the player, except for SLOW's half move.

(FAST upgrades to three moves, but they still all go after the player does.)


OH GOD AND WHEN DOES LIGHT UPDATE

Light should probably be spread across both reasonable spaces for the whole pushing turn.

[CAVER N]

you should call it


CAVER N

(note the space)


EDIT!!!

Maybe 'Robot Caver N' because you're a robot and you're in a cavern and you're a caver and it's your cavern obviously so it's a Robot Cavern and you're a Robot Caver named/tagged/identified as N
yaayyy

I tried playing this game again and it didn't work >:

Hahaha

oh, dad.

you and your monster truck driving.

when has that ever saved our lives

wait

i remember

I HOPE THERE ARE NO INNOCENT CHILDREN PERUSING THIS THREAD >_<

BUT MOOOOOOOMMMM

[FUCK SOME BLOCKS]

FUCK SOME BLOCKS (updated whenever.)

• arrows - move
• space/z/x/c - grab stuff
• t - wait it out

Hello.

I am actually here to get my thoughts together. No hype today, sorry!
Also, this is entirely unrelated to Fishbane 2, which I am working on at the same time as this (which means one of them will DIE)


ORDER OF OPERATIONS & PRIORITY:

speed (3, 5, 7, ...) movements
all 'pushers' move (probably just the player but we'll see)
all blocks move
all regular-speed movements
speed (2, 4, 6, 8, ...) movements

An enemy who is three times faster than you will move once before you (and may get in the way of any brock fuckeling you might want to do!)

Then you go, then that enemy goes twice more.

Sounds good to me, especially since 3x speed enemies will probably be about the limit.


I hope D:

Tugging blocks will of course mean that they follow after you right away;
I guess pushed blocks will need priority greater than yours, kinda?

In any case, checking for deletion will need to happen all at once.

REVISED!

-ODD#- FASTER SPEEDS (3, 5, 7, ...)
BROCK FUCKELS AND BLOCKS (can be done at the same time since blocks don't move?)
BASIC OTHER MOVEMENT (1)
-EVEN#- FASTER SPEEDS (2, 4, 6, ...)

Within each category, how is priority decided? Only really relevant if there are other brock fuckels.


The whole 'step' should be simulated and decided immediately! Once all them animations happen, it's already decided. So simple.



sokoban match-3 pac-man-&-snake-like roguelike-like etc.