I didn't know the original team wasn't involved... I just assumed they'd be doing the port.

Guess I'm not looking forward to this anymore. 

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times...

Interesting take.

Alec was saying something about how Indie games would be seen as gay or lame cos their 2d.

Uh, I was saying that that's how a coked up Halo 3 fan boy would see it. I don't see it that way.

I think we should feature whatever indie games happen to be good, regardless of whether they'll appeal to the mainstream or not.

roflmaopoopingmypantsbbq

That was perfect Cake.

I actually kinda like the jumping in strider, even though its pretty limited. I guess it felt deliberate / timed, like you had to really focus to get it right in certain situations.

I think by 'best of', we mean 'the games that don't suck'. It doesn't necessarily mean they're the best games ever. But it seems like the list should feature the 'better' games; games that achieve a certain level of quality.

Feels like Darwinia and Mr Robot should be on there too, IMO.

Another thing is -- most people who play mainstream games already know about indie games, they just don't really care. The Joystiq or Kotaku entries on indie games often get far fewer comments or interest than their normal posts.

Yeah, exactly.

I think the only thing that will really sway general public opinion is an increasing stream of really well made games, that fill niches that the mainstream doesn't cover.

Until then, all we can do is present the best of what we've got.

I don't know, are we really indebted to making mainstream players care about indie games?

I think all you really have to worry about is showcasing the indie games that are really worth playing, whatever you think they are. I'd be worried if you were trying to second guess your own instincts by what you think a coked up Halo 3 fanboi wants out of indie games. There's just no point.

Even if we "faked" them into thinking the indie scene can somehow compete with the mainstream on the mainstream's terms, once they hung out around here long enough they'd realize that a lot of indie games are 2D and "gay" and then get back to pretending to drop their sacks in their friend's mouths over the internet.

Well I think its just Guert's suggestion anyways. I don't know if it'll make the final article. I think I'll leave that up to Derek, if it was up to me I'd be too embarrassed to include it.

I dunno, I guess Akuji didn't interest me and Knytt did. Knytt feels like personal expression, and Akuji feels like a game.

I think the reason Aquaria is on the list, is because Guert was listing upcoming games of interest. If I remember correctly, there were more games in there than Aquaria.

But hey, if you want to bash it because you don't like me, go right the fuck ahead.

I don't really get why indie games have to emulate mainstream games to be "good".

I think Knytt is more interesting than Akuji, because it avoids the temptation to just throw coins, enemies and a bunch of other cliches in the game because "people expect it". It does its own thing, and I feel it works on its own terms - the problem is that a lot of people are so close-minded about what a game "should" be, that it doesn't get played with a sense of discovery.

All graphical styles should be acceptable if they're well done. It seems silly to hold styles to arbitrary standards, in a time when minimalist designs like N and Darwinia can succeed and attract a huge audience.

I guess the idea is that style and polish are two different things. I'd rather see something with a unique/interesting style and good polish, than just good polish.

It seems a bit weird to essentially say "game feel" == "controls". I know you're not trying to say that exactly, but I'm also wondering if there's a term to describe what you're talking about that's more specific.

Hmm yeah, when it gets divided into genres it starts to feel a bit... weird somehow? Like in that we're expecting people to skip over the "genres" they're not interested in or something. I'd rather see the games presented in a "random" order with interesting screen shots and let that draw me in first, and then read the incitefull descriptions to find out what they're all about.

Its kind of annoying that a lot of sites are organized by genre, when really I just want to see a list of good games that I might be interested in trying.

P.S. N looks fine. Chill the fuck out.

Ah, have to finish my remake of Extreme PaintBrawl first.

Man, I loved PilotWings back in the day. My brother and I didn't get to play games for long at home, because our parents were concerned about it. I think it started out so that we'd have a 15 minute limit each per day. (so if we combined our 15 minutes, we'd get a half hour) It made playing games like FF6 together a lot of fun, because we'd have to work really hard to get to the next save point before our 30 minutes ran out.

In any case, our neighbor + friend's parents were slack on the video game regulation, so we'd go over there to play games. He had PilotWings, Star Fox... 3 player Bomberman was the best though.

Anyways, I did play Pilotwings 64 a bit when it first came out. I remember being disappointed in how it felt a bit over done, like there was too much going on at once, whereas the first game was more pure and focused. But I really want to try it again and see what I think, I haven't played it in years.

I really liked how Knytt somehow had emotion through simple animations and atmospheric sound/music. The part with the spider is super freaky, and there's something moving about all the little creatures that are living in the world. I started reading a lot into what the main character would be feeling upon meeting each character. Feeling joy to finally see another living being, but not being able to communicate, etc.

The whole place feels alive - but lonely, like every creature is on their own. Things are strangely detached from each other. Its as if your character is the only one that's been able to notice this as well. That feeling gets enhanced by the lack of character dialog.

"Jetpack" makes me think of SNES Pilotwings, which had some interesting control. I remember as a kid not being able to control the plane AT ALL. Which made it feel a bit like I was flying a real plane, which I would likely also crash into the ground often.



I think we had the most fun with the rocket belt parts ... they really felt scary, especially trying to land on the moving bonus platform while risking falling in the water. There was a real freaky sense of inertia.

I think I always found the weird mix of laid back music with the beepy warning sound to be really disconcerting. Like the character is trying to keep it together, but partially losing it.

It can reach into and affect story, and affect the emotional impact of events.

So glad you mentioned this. It feels like there's so much talk in places about how gameplay is all that matters in the end. But to me it feels like the fusion of all the elements of a game is what makes it succeed or fail. Part of the artistry unique to games is how all those different elements work together. (or against each other)

I don't know, Mario 64 has some of the most free + fun movement of any game. There really is nothing like it.

Mario Sunshine adds a few fun things to play with, but it doesn't really come together as effectively. (its still a joy to pick up and play around in the starting area though, much like M64's first area)

Can't think of another game that does that as well.

Now I miss my N64.

Aquaria's like flying a tie fighter underwater.

According to some very misinformed Mac Games podcast.