That Catholic church strategy game idea sounds awesome. Any game about managing a religion would be awesome. As for real games, though, I've never found one I like. They tend to be generic and preachy. Even before I was an atheist I didn't like them. Hardly any interesting concepts, unless you count Assassin's Creed.

Nobody is pointing a gun to your head and saying that you must believe in a religion. As far as I am concerned, most religious games are targeted towards the very people that believe in their concepts. Are you saying that we have no right at all to even to our later generations in any way about our religions? Oh, yeah, meanwhile atheism is forced down people's throats with both humorous and aggressive comments that show hatred rather than respectful disagreements with a person of another faith. I'm not saying that all irreligious people are this way, but there are a ton of them around, especially in the media, which never stops to criticize religion and point out some good things about it.

Once again, I think it's just as fair to say that a game with a certain philosophy or religion pertains mainly to its followers rather than any outsiders. Sure, people who were not informed about a religion/philosophy might become interested in pursuing or learning more about it, but that doesn't give any other group of people the right to take away the original meaning contained within it.

a lot of those make no sense -- universities, charity, rights, and even western morality all predate christianity and catholicism -- take a look at aristotle for instance. he wrote about rights and charity and morality 300 years before christ was born, and ran a university

Ummm...while there was schools around the time of Ancient Greece, they were not universities; most of them were private and a form of apprenticeship. It wasn't until the Medieval Times that education matured itself.

http://www.bede.org.uk/university.htm

Also, people make it seem as if there was not a single achievement during the Medieval Times when there were more than a few things.

http://medievaleurope.mrdonn.org/achievements.html

http://www.the-orb.net/textbooks/nelson/medieval_achievements.html

So, you see, the Medieval Times were not as bad as people tend to generalize, and the same goes for the Catholic Church.

Going back to the idea of a religious game, how realistic is it to make a game that is very based around history? We have games like grand strategy ones (i.e. Europa Universalis, etc.), which have some degree of historical accuracy, at least according to the actions that the countries may choose to make. To what extent should game developers take away control from the player, as to remain as historically accurate as possible? Is it possible for a person to make a game about a person's life, like that of St. Francis of Assisi or MLK Jr.? Or will games never be able to go that far enough with interactivity?

I don't deny that the Church has made some very controversial decisions in the past. However, it is unfair to ignore to the things that were also great about the Church.

Could you point a few of those "great things"? It's possible that the non-believers don't choose to ignore them - they just don't know any.

Well, I found a question at Yahoo Answers that addresses this issue. The link can be found below.

http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091230162823AAThWXD

Just to give you a list of a few things that the Church has done that was beneficially to society (taken from a post by imacatholic2):

A few things where the Catholic Church has made the world a better and brighter place are:
+ Relief from the Barbarian invasions of the early middle ages
+ Rescued Christian and pre-christian literature
+ Spread agricultural and animal husbandry knowledge
+ Started and protected universities
+ Sponsored and supported science and medicine
+ Created International Law theory
+ Developed and sponsored modern economic theory
+ Invented charity as we know it
+ Codified, expanded, and improved Western Law
+ Developed Western Morality
+ Created just war theory
+ Sponsored and influenced art and architecture
+ Developed the concept of inalienable rights

I suggest you read the book "How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization" by Thomas E. Woods, Jr. http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/history/world/wh0101.html

With love in Christ.

There's also one website article that gives eight good reasons for being Catholic:

http://www.americancatholic.org/Newsletters/CU/ac0888.asp

If you're "Christian game developer" (oh, god, that sounds so wrong) you have to consider that videogames are essentially a waste of time (even with religious stuff added in it) and most of them are downright evil(with all the violence in em) and also addictive as hell, would god(the Christian one) want you to waste time by playing games? Or worse create ones so that thousands would waste their time playing them? Or would god play hardrock? I really don't think so.

As long as games can adhere to the teachings of the Catholic Church, I see no problems. Any game claiming to be "Christian" that doesn't present enough themes involving a Christian denomination, be it Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox Christian, etc. can be considered falsely portraying itself as Christian.

Likewise, I do not think that contemporary Christian music, unless it is chant music (i.e. Gregorian chant, Roman chant, Byzantine chant, etc.) or really appropriate instrumental music (with older instruments, like an organ) is truly Christian. Of course, that is how the Catholic Church views music, but Protestants and other Christians may disagree on the classification of Christian music. My preference is chant music, for it seems a lot closer to prayer and meditating on God's Word than other songs in most cases.

As long as any Christian work (movie, book, play, etc.) does not follow secularism's ways (at least not too much), it should rightly be considered appropriate.

What? What people "of other faiths" have you been talking to that makes you think this? Positive things have come out of Christian institutions, such as Gregor Mendel, but why do you want to make a game that ignores the negative things? Why do you want to make a game that forces people to behave in ways that are congruent with your personal ideology as opposed to giving them choice?

I was referring to the fact that many people, especially irreligious ones hardly ever praise Christianity or other religions.

Apparently neither do you. You seem to be idealizing the Church's past and overlooking all aspects of its dogma that are uncomfortable to think about. I reiterate what I said earlier: Medieval Christianity had no problems with keeping slaves as long as the slaves themselves were not Christians. Shouldn't you in some way acknowledge this if you are making a game about Christianity throughout history?

I don't deny that the Church has made some very controversial decisions in the past. However, it is unfair to ignore to the things that were also great about the Church. No one is saying that anyone in the Catholic Church is impeccable (without sin). There is a clear distinction between claiming that the pope is infallible and impeccable. Often times, people consider the two terms synonymous, when they are not. "Infallible" means that the Church's teachings on morality are guided by the Holy Spirit, thus making them inerrant. No matter what has happened with the Church in the past, even with some corrupt popes like the Medicis, Borgias, and others, never have the teachings been full of error. For, it is written that evil will not prevail over Christ's Church.

And all the other denominations that claim otherwise are heretics, clinging to their own (erroneous) interpretations of the Bible. Now, we see tons of relativism present in Protestantism, as it believes that all its denominations are equally correct.

It should be pointed out that the people of the old democracy during the ancient Greek times were also not perfect. We saw plenty of questionable habits, like people indulging too far into their sexual desires, with tons of orgies, and other sordid things. Even bestiality ran rampant.

Therefore, in this secular society, if we are to truly pursue this postmodern culture, we are going to have to accept equality among all religions, meaning that there is enough criticism for each believer of any faith. No religion, popular or unpopular, deserves to see itself any more or less criticized than another kind of belief system. This applies to atheists, Christians, Muslims, agnostics, Baha'is, Hindus, Jews, etc. Only then can we see a true balance of power that holds peace.

What an interesting topic you have brought up, jeffrobot. I definitely think that in this postmodern society, we see more people questioning their own religions, thus more people are becoming irreligious. At the same time, however, we may be seeing the rise of a universal religion, the Baha'i faith, which is still very small, but grows gradually. For the moment, we will continue to see very secular means, with religion remaining limited in video games.

That and the fact that religious people (i.e. Christians, Buddhists, Muslims, etc.) do not find much of an interest in producing games, or games that are nonsecular.

If it is focused on the topic of religion, even if only for debating reasons, I still would consider it a religious game. So, according to you, religious ideas are limited only to things spoken of, like God, or polytheistic ideas coming from other religions? I guess we see things differently then. As for having a game revolving around a religion's dogmas? Sure. Why not look towards something that of St. Thomas Aquinas' Summa Theologica? There are plenty of arguments for the existence of God and ones that defend the Catholic faith there.

Personally, I can't see what the advantage of making a religious game would be over using other media. Games, as I see them, are best at a) entertainment and b) emotion. So if your starting position is wanting to make something religious (either propaganda or a discussion of religion), I'm not sure why you'd pick games.

That is, if religion was used as more than just a theme; as an aesthetic choice, it could work very well - personally, I want to see the game suggested on the first page - managing the Catholic church through the ages. As a satirical game, naturally 

Not to seem disrespectful in any way, but there have been way more works in any medium that present the case for atheism or secularism, so why not have alternatives to this? Not many people in America know enough about how the Church really was like in the past, other than hearing about others talk about the Holy Crusades and such. What about monasticism, the Desert Fathers, or before the Church split up? People of other faiths never talk enough about those other times, acknowledging as if not a single positive thing came out of Christianity.

A game about disproving the Big Bang theory or evolution would be a good example of a counterargument, thus putting more of an equal balance on both sides of the argument. Perhaps a game that simulates the new earth theory might be another great religious game. Or how about even some alternative, lesser known atheist theories on the earth and the universe's existence?

Perhaps game developers can take things even further, by presenting players with different philosophies to follow, and depending on what you do, you may lean more towards a popular ethical hedonist, enlightened ethical hedonist, utilitarian, nihilist, etc. rather than relying on just good and evil all the time. You could even have religion tied in somehow, like having books found within the game, and as you read certain ones, you gain more knowledge about certain belief systems, with an increased chance of gravitating more towards the one religion/irreligion that you are focusing on the most.

An interesting mechanic would be to take away control from the player sometimes, whenever a certain action doesn't fit in with the character's beliefs, making things like murder or violence less possible if you're nonviolent than if you have a philosophy that regards little care towards others, or if you are part of a cult. This could maybe even involve a minigame that has the player try to gain control over his/her character after attempting to force him/her into doing something questionable.

Okay, if you want a game that involves "religious ideas," Dacke, I'll give you one.

The game is similar to Ace Attorney. However, you're a Christian that is arguing for the ban of abortion. Now, you will have to present hard evidence that it is more detrimental to abort fetuses than to save them. In addition, you'll find yourself taking up similar cases, such as arguing against forcing priests to marry homosexuals in their churches. This might seem like it would tackle a lot of controversial topics, but, then again, who's to say that such games are to be banned? Where would H-games or Duke Nukem Forever be if this were this case?

[Location-based game]

Here are three religious game oriented ideas that I've thought up recently:

Location-based game + Religious game

You can start the game in various locations, and you that determines which religion your character believes in, as you try your best to go around and talk to others, getting to know your religion better.

Religious game + Narrator

The whole Bible is described with summaries of each book, and it progresses as you perform the many actions that happen within it. For instance, you will find yourself controlling units as you destroy other civilizations' people or defend the chosen people from God's wrath that is manifested through seeing destruction fall into your own hands. Other times, you'll control individuals and perform various things, like help build synagogues, altars, etc. Think of the narrator feature similar to the one from the upcoming game, Bastion.

http://www.giantbomb.com/news/hands-on-bastion/2513/

Alternative: There could also be another, much more detailed version of a narrator that goes into detail on every word every spoken, with the more repetitive sentences (like the ones that mention various names of families' heirs, etc.) being phased out or reduced further, so as to not make the whole game even longer and more slow-paced.

Oh, and the dialogue that every person in the Bible says would be spoken by that very person, and it would be voiced rather than text for you to read through.

Religious Game + Facade

You have a variety of different things to say, and your goal is to ask a lot of questions regarding [insert religion of choice], with even the possibility of debating people of other religions that make very precise replies to your statements. It would basically be a very dialogue-driven game, where you have the option to bring up many different issues and topics, as you try to win a debate against everyone else.

Well, I'd like to really examine the traditions of the Church, such as its teachings and how our culture was during the Medieval times, as a means to live in a less secular fashion. Thus, I would be more interested in seeing things like chant music as part of a game's audio rather than modern or postmodern music, with customs and values that people around that time carried. And, in doing so, a game that tries to be as close to that vision as possible, by limiting violence and sex to a great extent.

The way I see it, today's society is so filled with secularism in its ideas and culture that there must be so form of thirst for a different approach, which would, of course be a more religious one. After all, theater developed a lot around the ideas of the Greeks and of secularism alone, while mystery plays and other religious forms of theater were pretty much abandoned or lost. Whether you are a religious being or an irreligious one, you cannot deny that there has been little progress in the nonsecular ways of the media, so that may make creativity in this particular area worth pursuing.

El Shaddai looks too much like Dante's Inferno, at least in the sense that it's just another action game, with religious overtones. I'd like to see game developers try much harder than this by focusing less on being allegorical, instead being literal, or at least more nonviolent, especially with existent religions.

I don't think that any Civilization game or expansion pack was every really detailed with its religions, at least not to the same extent as the idea that I mentioned. For instance, you can't manage the pope or other clergy, like cardinals, bishops, nuns, or monks. There would probably need to be some level of micromanagement involved to make the game very accurately portray the Catholic Church, or Christianity as a whole, with each individual denomination and schism that occurred. And somehow, presenting ways to update the teachings of the churches would probably need to be another huge element of the game.

Here are some more ideas that I envision:

- spreading Christianity through each form of medium (books, newspapers, poetry, art, music, and later on, TV, radio, games, etc.). You would also see many historically accurate events or ones that are very close occur, along with great artists, musicians, and others being born, with the need to convince them to work for the church and create Christian works by means of paying them well and other forms of persuasion.

- trying to keep the Orthodox Churches alive in communist Russia: many people would need to be recruited to help hide believers and the clergy, as being one example. A similar concept could be applied to other countries where Christians were/are being persecuted.

- getting the masses to choose a Christian politic over that of a secular one or one of another religion

- finding ways to influence economics in such a way that promotes as much fairness as possible, while striving to not gravitate too much towards communism

There was a game about managing the catholic church already -- http://www.molleindustria.org/en/operation-pedopriest

Well, I was thinking more along the lines of a game similar to that of a grand strategy game like Europa Universalis, where you try to spread the religion throughout your country and/or the whole world, while trying to influence everyone through the culture, media, politics, economy, etc. and doing this across a long period of time. It could be from the time that the Great Schism occurred, through the present, or even before it. And while pacifism/nonviolence is greatly encouraged, you can be as cruel or as nice to your people as possible, with some hard decisions to make as more time goes by.

Muslim extremists will likely respond in rage, and we'll be in another mess again one day, so long as we continue applying "revenge" (assuming that every little detail about the War on Terrorism is factual) on others. Then again, atheists, Christians, or other religious people who are extremists, will be happy to wage war on each others' religions.

There can be a religious game in the same way there can be a religious movie, but in both cases, actually reading <insert chosen religion's reading materials here> seems like a better exercise. Is it worth it to play a game that simply retells a story in the bible? What about a game that tells an original story with religious overtones?

The only religious movie i can think of that i ever liked is called The Holy Mountain, which told an original story with religious overtones, but it was interesting because it incorporated a vast number of world religions with a seemingly unique philosophy binding them together in a quest for enlightenment. It changed my mind about how religion can be portrayed in media. But how can something like this work in a game? Sure, we could put those themes into the story, cinema, and setting, but in that case you really just have a religious movie with game elements.

I bet it's possible, but not probably doable for half the people who want to make games about religion.

That The You Testament looks pretty interesting, so maybe a well-done religious game already exists for my standards.

Sorry, but I don't really like the idea of cutting and paste religious overtones into a game's story that can be interpreted in other ways. A movie/book like The Chronicles of Narnia, in my eyes, is not Christian, no matter how hard C.S. Lewis may claim it to be. Even if it is really difficult to make a game portraying events that went on in the Bible, or even discussing the lives of saints, I still say that game developers should aim towards making such games.


During the Medieval times, we saw almost nothing but mystery plays and miracle ones. These plays either focused on the lives of the saints or the Bible itself. They did not distance themselves any further than that from Christianity. And I think that this is the most proper way to display religion in any medium, be it film, literature, TV, theater, music, art, etc.

It would certainly remain pretty restrictive at first, but eventually, we should be able to find a way to make an interactive experience that doesn't stray from the whole purpose of a game's religious message. This applies not only to Christianity, but to other religions, too.

Perhaps game developers will have to take a similar approach to that of Heavy Rain, before they find alternative means that lead players to do exactly what they want them to do.