I think the earliest date we're going to show the Winnitron to the public may be November 6th. It's at a career day thing for kids in Winnipeg. The Manitoba Pork Packing Counsel and some big call center place are there... and INDIE GAMES. So, the cooler the games part, the more hilarious the contrast will be.

That's awesome. 

Random: what do you guys use for player 2 key bindings, we still haven't locked those down yet.

They can be set to anything, but by default they are WASD for movement, G to attack and H to use a special.

Here's everything I can think of that needs to be done for a Winnitron release of Indie Brawl:

-Incomplete characters, stages and items removed. (I'll do this)
-All characters need guarding sprites.
-Lyle, some stages and most items need placeholder sound effects.
-In-game help screen. (I'll do this, too)
-Revised menu and UI (it will be 2-player only) (I'll do this as well)

There are a few other changes I'd like to see added before this release, but they aren't critical:

-Give the player the ability to set their handicap
-Add a few of the mostly-complete stages and items
-Update a few characters (mainly Naija and Golden Knight)
-Make character hitboxes more accurate (maybe, if there's time)
-Add more game modes

Winnitron and Indie Brawl seem like a perfect match! It shouldn't take much work to make a Winnitron version. When do you need it?

There's a part in Aquaria where I had to travel down a pitch-black corridor without a light source. Once I got to the end, I entered sun form to light up the area, and found out I was in the middle of a school of jellyfish. Freaked me out a bit.

Didn't you start a topic like this already?

I've thought about this issue a bit more, and I've determined that the key to making a game replayable is uncertainty. If the player already knows the outcome of the game, then there's no point in playing it again. This is why puzzle games and adventure games are usually only fun the first time. This doesn't mean games without uncertainty are bad. They just aren't very replayable.

There are a few ways to achieve uncertainty:

1) Other Human Players:
Human behavior is diverse and unpredictable, so it is no surprise that some of the most replayable games are multiplayer. As long as there is enough variety in opponents, these games can be played frequently for decades without people tiring of them.

As an aside, if a human opponent becomes predictable, then the game becomes much more like a puzzle. Once you determine how to take advantage of their predictability, beating them is trivial. This is why there is so much emphasis on keeping opponents guessing in fighting games.

Examples: Chess, Soccer, Dungeons and Dragons, Street Fighter II, Starcraft, Halo

2) Randomness:
Obviously, adding randomness increases uncertainty. But if the randomness has little effect on player actions (such as a random chance of scoring a critical hit), then it won't increase replayability by much. However, if the randomness has a large effect on player actions (such as a procedurally-generated level), it can add almost limitless replayability.

Examples: Rogue, Tetris, Spelunky

3) Complexity:
Regardless of whether they have random elements, some games use such a complex engine that actions may still have unpredictable results. The human brain simply can't process all the information in the game well enough to predict exactly what will happen. This mostly applies to simulations. This overlaps a bit with randomness in video games, since many video games use randomness as a way of representing complexity.

Games with a physical component often fall into this category, since mentally modeling all the physics of the real world is impossible.

Examples: Billiards, Dwarf Fortress

4) Reflexes
There is some unpredictability in human reflexes. Even if you're trying to dodge a stream of bullets coming at you in a shmup, there's a chance you will get hit anyway. However, the unpredictability here is pretty small, so it may not increase replayability that much. And once a player is skilled enough to reliably beat the game, it ceases to be replayable. Having different levels of success (such as a score) helps.

Examples: Darts, Bullet Hell


Some of the techniques mentioned earlier, such as adding additional characters or achievements, don't really increase replayability. That's just adding content to extend the life of a game, much like adding an additional level. The game still has a limited (if somewhat longer) lifespan.

Additions like those are very easy ways to extend a game's lifespan without expending much effort, so they may still be worthwhile. But if you want to make a game that the same people will be playing years from now, it will need some uncertainty.

Yeah, the creeper's been suggested before, but I forgot to add it to the original post. It's added now!

Liero and Reimu are both from the 90s.

The idea's been brought up before, but the Kid doesn't do anything but jump, shoot, and die (mostly the last one). And what makes IWBTG a good game isn't the main character. It's the level design. So it's best as a stage.

That sounds good then. Even if he is a generic wizard, the game doesn't really have one of those, yet.

[Delfador (Battle for Wesnoth)]

How do you suplex with Cyberdwarf? I beat the game without ever knowing he could do that.

(Although I thought his defining feature was his healing ability, not his fighting)

Delfador (Battle for Wesnoth)

I have not played this game much (luck plays too large a role in it), nor have I ever heard of Delfador. Is he that big a character? Does he really stand out as being the defining, iconic character from Battle for Wesnoth?

Luggy (Egoboo)

Never heard of this, but I looked it up. Isn't a large part of the appeal of roguelikes the ability to make your own character?

You can find most of the animations in the graphics folder that comes with the game when you download it, or in the different threads on this forum. Iji and Nikujin are probably the two best examples.

I really liked the art in Frogatto- I'd say it was the game's strongest point. But it's hard to say whether or not a simpler style would have been a better use of time. I think that's a common dilemma when making games. There's a reason the sprites in Indie Brawl are simple (but still very attractive, IMO). 


PS: As a complete aside, Kirby's attacks in SSB are taken mostly from Fighter Kirby, with a few moves from Yoyo Kirby, Burning Kirby, Cutter Kirby, Stone Kirby and Hammer Kirby.

There was some discussion about a similar idea for a stage recently, and it was shot down. The premise sounds good in theory, but the more it is discussed in detail, the worse it sounds.

[Cyberdwarf]

Cyberdwarf runs about and suplexes anyone he approaches.

Cyberdwarf does not suplex. He punches and heals.

Bob Surlaw fires some crystal magic and maybe a few knife slashes.

Is this who you are referring to? I don't know what this is.

Since I'm an IF developer, can there be a gigantic XYZZY command that crushes the enemy?

Colossal Cave Adventure is indie in my book. But that suggestion might be too much of an in-joke.

a text thingy could appear that types in something random that does stuff

This is a creative idea. I like it.

It could even work as a stage. Hmm.

In a game with uneven terrain, high and low attacks don't make much sense. With the right positioning, Nikujin's low slash can hit someone's head, and his high slash can hit their feet.

Sorry about the broken link. It's been fixed. 

You've got my permission to use frogatto in indie brawl.

With some specs, I could even do the necessary art. 

Very cool. You don't have to do the art yourself, but that would still be awesome, since you are clearly very talented with pixels. 

As far as specs go, there aren't too many hard and fast rules. An average human is about 50 pixels tall, and Frogatto would probably be less than that. Color count is ideally kept low. Characters have a 2-pixel-wide black outline. Heads are big, and legs are small. Eyes are typically 2x3 pixel dark gray blocks, but Frogatto would be an exception. You should get a pretty good idea for the style by looking at the sprites that are already done.

At the moment, Frogatto is a support character, so the only animations he needs are shooting out his tongue, swallowing someone, and spitting them out.

We're very seriously considering expanding frogatto to include brawl-style multiplayer, so it's quite possible his moveset in that mode will expand in a very suitable direction.

If there was a bit more material to build a move list from, Frogatto would work well as a main character. It'd definitely be worth considering.

Seriously, Inanimate and I talked about that, your name is like the name of some gallant knight in an RPG or something.

Where is it from?

It's an anglicisation of Souillard, a French name. It's unique to my family, so anyone with the last name Soulliard is somehow related to me.

Strangely, when I was younger I thought the name was kind of weird. Only recently have I realized how awesome it is. 

The Wario Land title for Virtual Boy was FUUNNN.

This. Wario Land was the system's only redeeming feature.

YES Because my real name is really fucking cool.