Really? There's a dark souls II coming out?
Yaaay that it may be as dark and miserable as the story suggests.

But ewwww, GWFL.
On PS3/XBOX360, so GWFL isn't an issue! 

In any case, there's no reason to get aggressive. I'm not telling you how to play your game or that your way is somehow inferior. I was just genuinely interested why you liked it despite hating one of its core features. And maybe mildly disgruntled that you are calling people who  play the same game "assholes", just because they play it differently.

I apologize, there was no anger directed at either of you guys specifically. ):

And no, all PvPers are not assholes.  I wasn't implying you all go outside and kick puppies in the teeth when you're not playing.
But can we admit that sometimes, redstone invasions can be annoying? 

* A disconnect while phantoms are in the area should count like using the darksign, you should go hollow, drop your souls, and spawn back at the bonfire

I'd only agree with a disconnect penalty if all other mp issues are resolved, really.  You have to target the root cause of people alt+F4ing, and it's mainly because the pvp/invasion experience is really shitty early game.

* SL for invading should be weighted by your equipment stats, primarily poise, defense, and damage/speed, making effective SL higher for players with maxxed out equipment

Yeah, that's exactly what I was suggesting.  Right now upgrades are worth waaaaay more than SLs for a large portion of the game, and it really screws up balance a bit.

I mean come on, there's challenge, but fighting a guy with 99 humanity, +9 armor, and +14 weapons when you have dinky +5 stuff is just as unfun as being ganged up on by summons.

you get cracked orbs right in firelink shrine when you start, and getting indictments is within the first 5 minutes of the game, right at the bell tower.

Well yeah, but you can't get any more after that unless you FAQ guided the darkwraith convent.  And coincidentally, the parish and before is the most troublesome area for troll-type invasions.

I mean, people that try to pick on new players in the burg and parish with maxed out kit are kind of jerks, right?  There's very little threat of resistance, and no chance of Darkmoon retaliation in those cases.

personally I hate how invading gets turned  off after the boss period, agreed, red summon signs and all invaders should be able to still invade after boss is down. (basicly I wish the entire game was like dark anor londo)

Yeah, it also shuts off duel soapstones at exactly the time I'd want them.

I think if the designers were going for the whole 'creeping horror' feeling, with the threat of danger around any corner, they should have made invasions happen anywhere where you're human.  And unannounced.

Now that would get me tip-toeing everywhere haha

* Even after nerf elemental weapons do far too much damage for not needing any stats to scale, a lightning halberd for instance is fast and does 600 damage a hit with only base dex and str, they should do far less but have half-normal scaling on their stats

Hm.  If they nerf them anymore, elementals will be pointless in PvP and PvE.  I don't know how to fix this besides making them scale with something.  Shouldn't these types of weapons exist to take advantage of elemental weaknesses, rather than being a crutch for low-stat characters?

spawn locations are based on where you invade from for red phantoms, which is why it's generally better to go at least partially into the area before invading (though that does mean you have to get back there to pick up your souls if you die).  For cat covenant it's random between near the fog door, by the bridge, or in the middle of the forest, but i do agree, for that it should spawn you anywhere in the forest randomly, not just the set 3 spots, preferrably AWAY from the host so you don't spawn in to 3 people standing around you waiting to instant kill backstab while you can't move.  There should also be a new equip slot for covenant summon rings, so you dont have to ring swap after being spawned.

Well, in my experience where you spawn in an area depends on where the player is, not where you used the orb.  Like in blighttown, sometimes I end up in the walkways, sometimes on the root to the dragon convent, even though I used my orb at the bottom bonfire.

It's also really easy to minimize the walk to your bloodstain by using the stone near a bonfire, which is what I meant about it "costing nothing". 


And is pulling the "my game is too manly for you" card really necessary?

it's unforgivable sinclair

I don't recall anything on the games box about "GET KILLED BY ASSHOLES ALL DAY EVERY DAY!" or pvp at all, I play because it's fun despite all the dickwraithing going on.

I'd also pose the reverse question; why do you put up with the rest of the game when all you want is pvp?

... Hell, without the pvp dark souls would basicly just be a half-decent devil-may-cry clone with rpg elements

So you don't enjoy the game except for the parts where you dick/duel with people? 
Also, "DickWraiths" wouldn't even be a term if a majority of players thought fighting off invaders was the awesomest thing ever.


Anyway on to something constructive:

How to make invasions suck less (and thus have less reason to Alt+F4)
-Invaders should lose something if they lose, but not so much that no one would ever bother invading (since hosts have much at stake)
-The ability to invade/indict should be gotten early on, not hidden as some sort of gone-forever secret
-Match players on actual threat level, not SL
-Make it so having sin actually matters; like having the threat of blue invaders invading in any mp enabled area whether the boss is dead or not
-Having some sort of feedback for indicting invaders, like receiving a "The guilty have paid the price" type message if someone that's invaded you has in turn gotten curbstomped by a blue
-If there are multiple players (ie coop), more invaders should be allowed to enter the same game
-Invader spawn locations should be random, but nearby, so spawn camping is less of an issue and you don't have dum situations where you need to marathon run after a host
-Don't bother letting invaders invade a player that's standing right next to a boss door, it's a waste of the invaders time

I also find it hilarious when I browse the forums and have some purported invader whine and bitch about spawn-campers and people that unplug their internet; it's like they actually believe they have a god-given right to douche it up and that it should be effortless.  

What? No! Invading is PART OF THE GAME, whether you like it or not. If you go human, you are taking a risk of being invaded, period, end of story. You can't have your cake (being able to summon people) and eat it too (not being invaded). Those are two sides of the same coin, like yin and yang. It was purposely created that way.

Or to put it the other way, if you don't want to be invaded, you shouldn't be able to summon people.

Then it's dum, and the designers are dum.


Let me put it this way:
When you invade, you have fun at the expense of others fun.
When you coop, everyone has fun.
When you duel through official channels, everyone has fun.

I'm not even complaining about invaders stopping me from cooping though, usually they don't get the chance.
I'm talking about having to do dum shit like throw myself off a cliff everytime I kindle a bonfire so I'm not harassed.


p.s. - if harassing people in human form is part of the game, so is spawn camping, ripping out your net, and tactically going in human form right next to a boss door so there's literally zero chance of being invaded, since there is no risk or ingame concequence for doing any of those things.

Also, Human + online mode = consented to pvp interactions, you're fair game

No. I go human because I want to kindle bonfires and summon people for co-op. That's not even close to the same thing.

Also lol, how often do invaders actually drop items for the host? I've only seen it once on a friend's stream I believe, and it was just one humanity that he dropped to help people recover from the loss he caused by killing them.

Exactly.

Just because you can fight me doesn't mean I want to fight you.
It reminds me of back in the diablo 1 days where you'd have some guy join your game and kill everyone that dared to set foot outside of town - except instead of punishing that guy, the devs reward him and make it so there's zero repercussions for failing.  

You wouldn't believe how surprised I was when I dicked around with redstones and found out you lose nothing if you're killed while invading.  It's like a blank-check for being an asshole.


I also find it hilarious when I browse the forums and have some purported invader whine and bitch about spawn-campers and people that unplug their internet; it's like they actually believe they have a god-given right to douche it up and that it should be effortless.  

How so?  Except that you access it so late. 

I've never seen an invader have trouble popping Humanity.
I mean if we're talking 1vs1 duels, of course you don't heal, that's stupid.

However, it's always funny when you have dedicated invaders talking about invading as if it's a consensual 1 on 1 fight; no, it's not.  You're making me stop playing and have to deal with you.

I'm going to grab you by the head and smash you into a nearby wall until you go away.

I didn't find Pyromancy to be as cruise control for cool as everyone made it out to be.  It certainly is nice to have, especially in PvP, but it seems like it's something I'm always fumbling with.  It always just seems easier to just keep hackin' and whackin' and smackin'.  Maybe that's just the lessons that Monster Hunter has instilled in me.

It's only cruise control for cool if you're trying to screw with new players, also you can make a pyromancer into literally any other type of character but still have max power fire spells.

I actually fumble alot while making pyromancer characters because of that;
you have to compromise between spell casting ability, weapon ability, vitality, and endurance when playing as a sorceror or cleric, but with a pyromancer you can have it all. 

For instance, if you wanted to make a cleric or sorceror that could use all the magic in their field, they'd need to be SL38 for the necessary 50 INT/FTH.  With a pyromancer you could max our spell casting ability at SL1, letting you use those extra 37 stat points for whatever.

I thought it was pretty cool that most of the Anor Londo you see is illusionary.

It's a shame killing 'Gwenevere' didn't silence the sun everywhere else in Lordran, now that would've been cool.

Egads you're right; OP should totally waste his time and money opening a lawsuit to stop these fiends from robbing him of $0.


He could do any number of actions according to IP law, but doing something because BY GOD MY RIGHTS* WERE VIOLATED doesn't necessarily accomplish anything.

*copyright isn't a right, it's a bought privilege.

So I just killed my first low-level grief-faggot today.

That was nice.
The guy was in standard thief gear with bandit knife, but I knew something was up when my R1 swings only did 20 damage, and a parry only did 1/6th of his health bar.  

However, he sucked so criminally bad.
He kept trying to ineffectually get some bleed going through my shield, and when he started running out of hp he turtled up completely.  ...so I destroyed him with a single two-handed R2 with a shortsword. 

i thought it was disappointing because its a terrible fucking boss fight lol.

i actually like the enemy designs in izalith. the bounding demons look freaking bizarre and those things with the many eyes are one of the creepiest enemies in the game. the suction noises they make when they walk are so unnerving

Oh that's a given, it sucked horribly.  I figured out the best strategy for the orbs was to run straight into its swinging hands and suck up a hit; because at least that way it doesnt force you into a hole.  That's all kinds of dum in a game where you spend most of your time blocking/evading.


Tube monster looked too much like they couldn't think of a proper monster design for me to enjoy fighting it. ):

Bed of Chaos was really disappointing to me because of all the build up around it, I was half expecting to crawl down to the bottom-most dungeons of lost Izalith and encounter something like this:


ONLY ON FIRE


But what I get is a droopy tree with a bug inside.
At least it's on fire for part of the fight, hoho

So thats how you get that shadow version of homing soul mass?  That's very helpful. 
...to bad I already used Manus's soul up.     ONWARD TO NG+ I GUESS.

Speaking of NG+, I got there by cheesing Gwyn with Crystal Homing Soulmass;
It didn't feel epic at all.

The sidestabs you're seeing are probably just people playing without camera lock moving into you at the furthest backstab angle, generally coming in with a roll into you and standing up facing your front partially at your side.  You don't have to be completely behind someone to backstab, facing towards someone's front even from the side is enough ...

Yeah that kinda makes me go 'thats dum' if the backstab window is that unintuitively wide.  Did FROM pay any real attention to PvP at all?  Or did they just balance it for pure frustration factor.

So I beat all the bosses in the dlc area, beat up manus, and get...

nothing, except some shadow sorceries and presumably a boss weapon for my trouble?  
Well that was disappointing, loot wise.  I don't even know where Dusk went after I tried to help her.



So thinking I'm done, I walk out to the area where the sanctuary guardian was; and instantly get double-teamed by TWO guardians.  Well played FROM, well played.

I guess it's an opportunity to get two more tail whips?!
So now I'm dual-weilding tailwhips.

Yeah, hanging around in the forest and 3 on 1ing people is kind of stupid.
...of course they do it for the same reason low-level griefers do, because it works.

You're just the one anomaly that makes them shrug their shoulders then go right back to what they're doing.


And I don't know what you're talking about with the host having the advantage when theres lag, all I get to see is a dude teleporting everywhere and lagstabbing me.  Or even when they aren't obviously lagging, still sidestabs frontstabs everywhere stabs.

Hurt a low level invader with +5 weapons?  Are you kidding?  Maybe if you get a lucky parry or backstab 2 or 3 times.


It's like we're playing two different games; mine where you can get backstabbed and one shotted from across rooms, from the side, while against walls, etc. and yours where invaders warp in and proceed to run in circles while making fart noises.

I'm actually starting to wonder if you're some mysterious grandmaster at this game Raptor85, because everything seems trivial and easy to you when 90% of the community has problems with it.

I'm playing on the PS3 obviously.  And you're assuming I'd try to play through the game in human form as often as possible, why would I do that when it brings nothing but disadvantages except for coop?

Especially early game where every area is infested with gankers looking for easy kills, it's utterly pointless to engage these guys unless you're a masochist.

And in my experiece invaders have every advantage except being able to estus heal; they almost always have maxed out equipment and pvp toys, you're usually fending off monsters when they show up, and network latency means you can't even accurately see what they're doing.

The only time you don't have the advantage is if the host is literally waiting for you in full pvp gear with two buddies by a bonfire.  And considering how irritating most invaders are, I don't blame them at all for doing that.


And yeah, nobody is arguing that tanks are easy to kill in PvP with sorcery, backstabs, etc.  It's just not a problem because invaders are so easily avoided entirely.

edit:
It makes me sad that I've never been in a gravelorded area, even online. )':

Remember too, dark souls is MEANT to be played online, so if you're tuning your character in a way entirely for bosses and skipping the pvp aspect, that's part of why you're having an easier time, you're essentially cutting out a large part of the game and specializing in the other, these poise tank characters that make a lot of the bosses easier you wouldn't even make it too the boss if playing normally in online mode. (It's like making a pure pvm character in a oldschool MMO like ultima....you ain't going to survive long like that).

Another thing is that the first game loop is essentially "very easy" mode, and while your poise/vit tanking by hitting 40 vit early might help in the first loop, stats dont relly scale much after 40 even though it becomes  more and more costly to upgrade so as you're playing the harder loops no amount of vit tanking will save you from the bosses, you can be fully upgraded giants gear and 99 vit and you're still going to get torn up trying to just stand and tank them, so all you're really doing by leveling those stats early during the first loop is putting off the challenge of the bosses until later, and the less you learn to dodge bosses in early loops you're going to have a massively harder time in later loops.

About bosses too, at first impression I felt manus was a joke, he was just way too easy to kill, as a light armor character his tells were so long it was super easy to dodge every one of his attacks plus his dark magic is so slow you didnt even need the pendant, you can just roll out of that.....well ng+ and beyond he gets quite a bit FASTER as well as stronger each loop, by ng2+ he's just going apeshit there...and it makes the battle ridiculously awesome, artorius is the same.

I've played online my entire playthrough so far, and only encountered like, 3 darkwraiths?
Two of which because I was intentionally hanging around the painted world in human form for no good reason.

Seriously dude, fighting monsters and throat-punching bosses is the meat of the game.  It's why Darkwraiths have an edge in the first place; who is going to be prepared for PvP while doing an area normally when invasions are so uncommon?

Of course on that note I don't know why you'd be in an area in human-form unless you forgot you were human (face-obscuring helmets?) or were looking for a fight.


As for tank building, you do realize the game doesn't force you to play one way or the other right?  If FROM wanted a game where being really good at ninja-flipping out of the way of everything is the only way to play, Dark Souls would be very different from how it is now.

Also NG+ is when the game takes the gloves off and gets really unfair; like Nightmare mode in the old Doom games.  It's not the 'standard' difficulty.


edit:
Running between Kalameet's hind legs basically nullifies most of his attacks, and makes his tail wide open to attack, especially with sorcery.
In fact I just killed him by shooting him in his dragon balls, thank god thats over with.

Also I only get a Titanite Slab and a cursed ring for my trouble? Pbbbt.