How about a trap detection skill?

@dungeon-heart-accessibility-detection:
Dungeon builders have to bring sacrificial offerings to the dungeon heart after dungeon layout changes to make it accept its new/changed surroundings. You have to ua goblin with average abilities (according to the dungeon level) to approach this. The monsters of the dungeon will not attack the goblin, but traps work as usual. Same procedure for storage quests: the dummy goblin has to bring the item to the desired place...

["storage quests"]

I've skimmed/read most of the posts, so I might repeat stuff that has already been said. Firstly, dang this sounds awesome.

*signs*

I also thought about such a game, but dungeons more like Spelunky levels...

Dungeon Hearts would be a good point to monetize. The first dungeon heart is for free. You can build a dungeon per heart. If a dungeon's heart is stolen, the dungeon instantly becomes "forgotten"/"hibernated". You have to buy or steal a heart to revive your dungeon. The heart always has the level of the dungeon. You need a level 12 heart to revive a level 12 dungeon. This way multi accounting does not work to gain hearts for high level dungeons. Some traps/buildings as well as some equipment for the hero require dungeon hearts (heart/money sink).

There should be equipment that is soul bound and that is attached to the hero even after dying.

Dungeon builders can accept "storage quests" for special items. These items have to stay in the dungeon for a period of time. If no one can get the item in this time frame the dungeon builder gets a reward/XP. Accepted quests are announced in public and one can browse dungeons by quest items.

BTW there is a dungeon keeper-esque game on facebook -> http://apps.facebook.com/dungeonoverlord/ quite nice but it gets a bit boring over time. It has dungeon raiding and building in it, see http://www.insidesocialgames.com/2011/01/28/dungeon-overlord-brings-nostagically-evil-strategy-to-facebook/ for a gameplay summary.

Hi Mr. mighty moderator man,

I tried a semi-kinda-mockup with a more hand-painted style of character, but it just looked extremely boring, and worse, the contrast between heavy linework on the map and light lines on the characters made the whole thing look really terrible.

Please enjoy this shittily compressed exported gif:

http://www.electric-zombie.com/stuff/stater.gif

(And never mind the units from the original "North and South" standing by, they're just visiting.)

I quite like it, but you're right it may be a bit boring. For my liking the pixels are little too big in the mixed style version. IMO this might work for pixel art fans, but not for average gamers, the pixel size in islorrrmock2.png harmonizes better.

map

Looks great! I would like to see an uniform artstyle version too ^^ just for comparison... :D

The card game Wizard is the all time favorite in my family. 7 Wonders (!!), Warhammer Invasion, Dixit, Starhip Catan (similar to  Catan Card Game), Bang! and Citadels are nice. Treasures and Traps is a nice game to introduce people to Munchkin.

I am german and I like Kerker too.

The problem behind the kind of games you want is that making such dynamic content is a problem of artificial intelligence, linguistics and general science.

Sure, its not easy, but worth looking into. Baby steps or something... But definitely more experimenting and try outs should be in this area.

intelligent dialog systems, knowledge management, environment-aware AIs and similar stuff are popular constant targets of research. the problem is that many achievments in this area are still not feasible/robust enough for games or game makers are not aware of them. just look at ACM to find papers...

Games with mass appeal earn money

That is the main challenge in art industry. But I am still certain that more we need crazy people with enough money that are willing to take risks when those different ideas arise. We don't have that people any more... (crazy investors)

I second this, but on the other hand games are entertainment, maybe we should solve other problems first...

@Mods: pls split this thread...

Everything comes down to personal preferences, without it any artform would be quite dull. People want to pursue their dreams and ideas. That is the most fundamental thing.

This.

The problem behind the kind of games you want is that making such dynamic content is a problem of artificial intelligence, linguistics and general science.

Wel there is the main problem, nothings ever going to change because games are developed for masses. Is it so that ultimate formula of entertainment has been discovered and nothing needs to be change? it definitely looks like it, and that is sad. It already happened in film industry and game industry is following the same path.

Obviously the  ultimate formula of entertainment has not been discovered. If so you would not rant about games . Games you like are hard and risky to make... Games with mass appeal earn money - people need money to live their dreams. Just don't give up your dreams when you have the money to accomplish them.

But games are a tool for story telling like books or movies.

This is where I totally disagree. We already have the book, and the film. We don't need game to be doing the same thing all over again. Games are not tools for story telling, they are tools for creating playing experience. Game and story are two different things, and forced marriage usually not work.

I think it often works. Why we should not make games similar to books or movies? People need them if they enjoy them. You speak of a special kind of games that you like. You are narrowing your horizon of games to just one kind of games.

I ask once again, did you play adventures like Grim Fandango or Day of the Tentacle? Procedural stories may be a nice feature, but games can be excellent story tellers without such procedural content.

I havent played those, because they do not interest me. Stories in those might be "good", but then I would rather read a book or watch a film about the same story. I don't see the actual game (art) and gameplay interesting in any possible way. So just the story won't do it for me.

Millions of other people like these games (as games). You should never jump to conclusions just because of personal preferences.
I don't like facebook games like farmville or gardens of time, my girlfriend does. I don't say "facebook games don't use the medium in a good way", i just say "i personally don't like those facebook games, but i am interested in those games, because some people like them and they influence the medium like any other game".

I never watch film or read a book multiple times because the story, the reason is always somewhere else. Same thing with games.

I love the (german) audio books by Walter Moers (spoken by Dirk Bach, Schrecksenmeister spoken by  Andreas Fröhlich) - I listened to them at least three times each because of a (imo) genius combination of story and story presentation.

I don't think main point of gaming and games is experiencing prewritten stories (good games have never been about any story), but to experience technology and virtual worlds that are probably impossible in reality. Game developers want too much to be storytellers, and too little they want to be experimental science folk.

I totally disagree. There is a big subset of games that need a good pre-written story.

Generated stories may work for some games. But games are a tool for story telling like books or movies.

I ask once again, did you play adventures like Grim Fandango or Day of the Tentacle? Procedural stories may be a nice feature, but games can be excellent story tellers without such procedural content.

It is like adding procedural level generation - replayability increases. But you can play through good "only one story games" like you can read good books or watch good movies multiple times.

Games are pieces of art, there is no "main point of gaming and games". A story can make totally boring gameplay to something that makes you think about the world - games like Edmund or Terrorist Killer are just glimpses of what games with a small but constant story can do.

@Mods: can we move this discussion to another topic?
@Musenik: Nice stuff, haven't read all ones yet (but soon )...

PCG can not cure flat characters.

No, that's why it is completely different approach and much more interesting one. I want games to be adventurous experiences about discovering something that is not predefined. What could be more interesting than connect with NPC characters that consist sophisticated elements of intelligent design. "Well" written character doesn't cure the fundamental flatness of the experience, where in interactive environment (game) I connect with dumb, forced story carrying characters.

I think that the way "well" written characters are implemented into games has to be improved. As I understand you, you want procedural "undefined" intelligent npcs that may break the story or at least deliver a more interactive improvisational-acting-like experience. I want that too. But on the way to electronic souls that serve our games as actors we should nevertheless think about stories that can vitalize npcs and their environment. I guess w/o ideas about stories that make npcs vivid we cannot think about building procedural story tellers.

My opinion is that rather than trying to come up with written, predefined personalities, game makers should try to develop elements and formulas of procedural NPC personality creation within a game.

Written content has been already seen in movies and books for some time, and there is not much new ground to cover. At least not for average game designers who are not usually very original artists in this area.

I think we can improve NPCs just by innovative dialogue systems and better interactivity. PCG could enable us to add more of the same old NPCs - this cannot lead to better NPCs but only to more "bad" NPCs.

I have never experienced truly fascinating game story or NPC, they all recycle the same cliches which are completely dead already. However I have experienced even very badly executed procedural content, which even in such experimental state is much more interesting than basic stuff.

Did you play text heavy rpgs like planescape torment or fallout, did you play games like simon the sorcerer or monkey island? Books and movies are being written although there are many of them already.
You did mention it: Many game makers aren't that creative when it comes to story telling. This brainstorm could deliver ideas for deeper npcs and finally lead to richer experiences with npcs in games - just by improving the stories behind the characters. PCG can not cure flat characters.

looks great! more fur under the belly or add cloth/penis... I don't like the hands i think hands like from a gorilla would be better...

Just a question   out of sheer curiosity: Why do you want to write an engine by yourself? There are many good free libraries out there, like bullet or physx.

http://gafferongames.com/ has some nice articles.

I totally love the only cards idea. Things could pop out of the cards.
like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfCG_RAtQoM
the carcassonne videogame adaption might be an inspiration too.
http://www.hmtk.com/wp-content/uploads/carcassonne1.jpg
http://images.amazon.com/images/G/03/toys/toysreview/CarcassonneLand.jpg

:D ic ^^
dungeon knight ? ^^

[or place]

wikipedia: Exorcism is the religious practice of evicting demons or other spiritual entities from a person or place which they are believed to have possessed.
The knight evicts demons from dungeons... IMO the semantics are correct.

dungeon exorcist ?

Thanks! Interesting hack there. Very good to know that option exist.

Well redistributing the jre w/o installer is no hack it is common practice for java projects, but the sfx/tempdir stuff feels indeed like a hack ^^.