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[Seth]

Every beat em up since RCR has been a disappointment for me.

[gunmaggot]

Every beat em up since RCR has been a disappointment for me.

There have been quite a few rad ones.  Though I guess none with the same mix of stuff RCR has.  Have you played Knuckle Bash?  Play Knuckle Bash. 

Someone should combine the mechanics of RCR with Super Dodge Ball.  That would be an awesome beat em up.

[Türbo Bröther]

Every beat em up since RCR has been a disappointment for me.

How were you on the remake for the GBA. Even sans multiplayer I was quite fond of it, especially the start your own gang aspect. You could probably fault the controls since it crams moves onto every single direction but you do get used to it.

Have you played Knuckle Bash?  Play Knuckle Bash.

Play Undercover Cops as well.

Oh damn it all this is going to be of those list threads now.

Someone should combine the mechanics of RCR with Super Dodge Ball.  That would be an awesome beat em up.

As far as I'm aware of it they did with Super Dodgeball Brawlers but much has been said of its terribleness.

Building on that, I think it would be cool if you could rip an enemy's arm off and then beat them with it.  Or you could rip off an enemy's head and chuck it at another enemy.  Or rather than throwing the head, you could whip it around by the hair.  I've never actually seen this in any games.  Just some thoughts.

There was a game on the Mega Drive named Cyborg Justice where you could rip sections off enemies and even attach them to your cyborg body. Or you could just toss it away. There was Battletoads as well, with those robot walkers that you killed and picked up their legs and the birds in that abseiling stage which you could use their beaks as weapons after killing them but that's not entirely ripping off appendages.

[gunmaggot]

In Combatribes you can bang the heads of enemies together - I don't know why that didn't become a standard feature of the genre.

I youtube'd Super Dodgeball Brawlers and I was thinking more the other way around - taking the dodgeball to the streets!  Like, beating up guys in co-op by tossing the ball to each other - if they catch it they can revive fallen comrades.  Something like that.

[dspencer]

Oh wow that would be super cool.

[alspal]

Re: Cheapness:  All of the good ones can be beaten on one cred, BUT they also all seem to have a few bosses that will dish out some guaranteed damage if you don't know in advance exactly what their behaviour is - a smart, generalised strategy and a lot of skill is just not enough.  That is actually probably the worst thing about the genre.  I'd love an indie revival of bmups - they're about as simple to make as shmups and platformers and unlike those genres there are a bunch of relatively simple ways to 'fix' them.

Which are?

[Radix]

bmups are not really any harder to make than shmups or platformers, so why hasn't there been a revival?

Because it's a shitty boring un-fun genre probably. We've got enough stupid button-mashy JADE engine style combat in other action games as it is.

[Wella]

Get GGPO and try loads of the beat-em-ups on there, and you'll understand what makes a good beat-em-up.

[gunmaggot]

bmups are not really any harder to make than shmups or platformers, so why hasn't there been a revival?

Because it's a shitty boring un-fun genre probably.

Yeah, but it's something indie devs could do right - sort of like getting retarded people to weave baskets or whatever.  Just take all those people making crappy match three games or point and click adventures and set them to work on stuff where you beat up transvestite hookers.  Nothing bad could come from this.

[moi]

It's a bit boring

[HöllenKobold]

Jump off cliffs and ambush and scare enemies like in Dynasty Warriors 6.
Just don't, uh, make it like Dynasty Warriors 6.

[s0]

It's a bit boring

Alone, yes, but in multiplayer (the real shit, not online), I've had some of my best gaming fun with bmups. I don't know how often I completed Turtles in Time with a friend of mine, but it must have been 50 times at least.  

[wcyou]

I would say speed, you should not be allowed long span of time idling, have to keep killing them all.

[moi]

It's a bit boring

Alone, yes, but in multiplayer (the real shit, not online), I've had some of my best gaming fun with bmups. I don't know how often I completed Turtles in Time with a friend of mine, but it must have been 50 times at least.  

I was talking about Zombie smasher

[gimymblert]

I was about to be a caricature of passionate over thinker game designer as usual (i promise i don't do it on purpose), when i had remember than an article already exist raising the point (kinda) i was about to make: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3931/intelligent_brawling.php?print=1

i have interest in brawling game and still have to figure (out of analysis) what make them fun and how to avoid boredom with just the core mechanics... (no rpg, no weapon updgrade, that kind of "asset heavy" "variety shortcut" gameplay, etc..)

[FishyBoy]

Honestly, I'd like to see a beat-em-up that uses the third dimension more. Here, I'm specifically taking about 2d beat-em-ups. In the ones that let you jump, jumping isn't really jumping, but more of just an temporary altered state of standing, with less control and different attacks. Basically, you don't use it to navigate the environment, you use it to jump-kick. I'd like to see more ways to use that third axis.

In general, beat-em-ups often lack control. It feels too restricted just sliding around on the same basic rectangular arena again and again. Environments that would let you, say, climb up and then drop onto an enemy would be interesting. Along this, some more fluid controls would be important.

Also, some more experimentation with weapons. Not just melee weapons that act as a temporary damage upgrade, but things that would in result in some interesting gameplay changes.

All of this really stems from one problem, which is a lack of depth in the interactions between characters. It all really amounts to just hitting people the same way every time. The more possibilities the game gives you and the enemies, the deeper and more enjoyable it will be.

Blah, late-night rant.

[alspal]

In general, beat-em-ups often lack control. It feels too restricted just sliding around on the same basic rectangular arena again and again. Environments that would let you, say, climb up and then drop onto an enemy would be interesting. Along this, some more fluid controls would be important.

I think that could help some games, but it's not that important - in the same way that not all fighters need to have platforming in them (like super smash bros).

Also, some more experimentation with weapons. Not just melee weapons that act as a temporary damage upgrade, but things that would in result in some interesting changes in the game.

Beat 'em ups usually have a lot of weapons to experiment with, plus I don't see what's wrong with a 'temporary damage upgrade' - how is that a problem? It helps keep the game much more interesting and helps it on the tactical level.

All of this really stems from one problem, which is a lack of depth in the interactions between characters. It all really amounts to just hitting people the same way every time.

If you're looking for even deeper fighting move sets, perhaps you should get into fighters - that's what they're good at. I think it works well for this genre, not going into as much depth as a fighter, it allows for the game to be much more fast paced and action orientated when dealing with multiple opponents.

The more possibilities the game gives you and the enemies, the deeper and more enjoyable it will be.

Of course, that's common sense (with every game).



edit: This should probably be in the design section of the forum.

[FishyBoy]

I think that could help some games, but it's not that important - in the same way that not all fighters need to have platforming in them (like super smash bros).

I guess that's true. This is more of what I want to see done in the genre.

Beat 'em ups usually have a lot of weapons to experiment with, plus I don't see what's wrong with a 'temporary damage upgrade' - how is that a problem? It helps keep the game much more interesting and helps it on the tactical level.

There's generally not that many, and they generally all act the exact same way. Choosing between doing more damage and not doing more damage isn't really a tactical choice.

If you're looking for even deeper fighting move sets, perhaps you should get into fighters - that's what they're good at. I think it works well for this genre, not going into as much depth as a fighter, it allows for the game to be much more fast paced and action orientated when dealing with multiple opponents.

I can't get into fighters. I still have no idea what the hell they want me to do to pull of a shoryuken, and everyone else is just tossing special moves around with ease. My problem is that most attacks don't really seem to differ that much on a gameplay level, or if they do, they're not balanced. Oftentimes something like the jump kick ends up being your go-to attack. I don't want more moves, I want them to have less homogeneous results. We need to get away from punch and kick doing the almost the exact same thing every time.

[Calabi]

I like Batman Arkham Asylum, its not strictly a beat em up, but it has the genre within it.

The combat is really simple and easy(to get into), you can easily defeat singular foes(though not easy to take down 20).  Only one basic attack button(the other attacks being counter, stun, throw and instant takedown), thats all you need.  Its all about how you tactically take out the foes.  You could almost argue that its too easy and you dont have to do anything, but its reduced your choices down to the simple binary elements.  All the choices you are given clearly change the outcome of the fight.  The good players and bad players are easily identified but neither one is impeded, the good players just get more of a reward.

The fighting isnt just about taking out the enemies its about how well you can do it.  You have enemies that are immune to certain attacks, they require forethought, to be taken down.  Whom do you attack?, when?  Do you counter?  How do I get rid of him?  How do I get a higher score/maintain the combo etc?

[Lucaz]

Not enough GodHand ITT.