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[gunmaggot]

alright ill put in some serious comments

he's comparing how the video gams have evolved compared to other things like... music. reasonable.
his example: people don't listen to music like "beatles" for nostalgia, they listen to it cos they actually want to experience that. but not many go back and play "paper boy" because they want to actually play it.

i played goldeneye64 again a year ago or whatever and the nostalgia is all lies. i couldnt even control the...
fucking shit


anyway i'd consider it a good thing, as he says too, that video gams continue to get better. yea theres still occasionally crap gams but there more crap gams back then too (the number of crap gams i mean)

lot of gams worth playing released very recently: bioshock 2, dragon age, mass effect 2, dantes inferno, assassins creed 2, modern warfare 2, darksiders, bayonetta, mag, odst, borderlands, etc. (if you dont like any of these gams, give up on your hobby)

Sucks for you that Goldeneye, your cherrypicked example of an old game that sucks, was exactly the sort of game in its time as Modern Warfare/MAG/Borderlands are now - will you hate them in ten years time?  Five?  Will you despise anybody who doesn't?  I have a copy of Bayonetta sitting right in front of me, next to Burnout Paradise, and I think a lot of what appeals to me is that it sorta evokes a lot of what is missing from games these days but was commonplace back in the day - pants-on-head retarded fun.  Like Nitroball, or Ninja Baseball Bat Man.  I'm not a nostalgia whore - a nostalgia whore is somebody who will swear up and down that Goldeneye is still fun and will look you in the eye and tell you Bayonetta sucks.  But I do like a bunch of old games, and I'm pretty selective about new stuff so I don't just end up playing the next Goldeneye.

[C.A. Sinner]

alright ill put in some serious comments

he's comparing how the video gams have evolved compared to other things like... music. reasonable.
his example: people don't listen to music like "beatles" for nostalgia, they listen to it cos they actually want to experience that. but not many go back and play "paper boy" because they want to actually play it.

I dunno, I played Fallout 1 for the first time some 8 years after it was released and still had a blast. Same thing happened with System Shock 2, Final Fantasy 6, Starcraft, Diablo 2 (I didn't own a PC for a long time) and several others.

Of course people often play old games because of nostalgia, but just as many people reject older games out of hand because of a narrowminded "it sux cuz its old lol" attitude.

[Gnarf]

I think guitars sound better than rocks being smashed together.

[inkBot]

You know what's really better than Retro games and Modern games?

Modern Retro games! 

[Gimym TILBERT]

The difference with game and other media is also interface are a big part of the experiance, it's not just the game and the design. Some game i had found crappy back to the old day find a new life once i play them on emulator and i configure the hell out of it by using glove pie, pp joy and the control plug in. By the way emulator can also provide graphical and sounds improvement by hacking the data (texture pack, sounds interpolation, better resolution, screen space shader, in rare case 3D model swap).

In other media the interface to the experience is directly your body (eyes, ears, etc...) in game you have a constant monitoring with the pad. Game are then doom to constant remaking to be enjoy again.

+ golden eye is rock! Even by todays standard! It only would need minor update to be back in the race 

[moi]

InkBot your avatar is the best thing ever. Puts me in the mood right before I read your posts.

[Ben_Hurr]

I was looking for this.

I don't know, seems kind of like an apple and oranges thing to me.
It'd be like comparing >this with >this
or
>this with >this

Although I have to admit, some of the best games ever would be the oldest games ever remade into shiny high-tech forms.

[Arne]

I dunno, I played Fallout 1 for the first time some 8 years after it was released and still had a blast. ...

I discovered M.U.L.E., Exile, Star Control II, Master of Orion and many other 'classics' some 15 years after their release. Exile kind of blew my mind, despite being highly inaccessible by modern standards.

Not surprisingly, there are a lot of older games out there, and like someone said, it's a bit like apples and oranges. Gamers once had a higher tolerance for inaccessible games (even getting the games to start could be tricky). Accessibility and user interfaces have certainly improved a lot, but when the gameplay has to be accessible too, some things are not done as much anymore, if at all, because they're seen as boring/too complex/too slow.

Local optimums are preferred and explored the most. When you're an old and grumpy hermit like me, you want want to wander out in the desert just to see if there is something else out there. Maybe it's just more desert, or maybe you'll find ruins and an ancient weird machine to figure out. A fixer upper.


Also, I played Goldeneye 64 with some friends back in the day. It's funny how just adding multiplayer can make a mediocre game rather playable. I had to struggle with the controls, but so did my friends. We got a few hours of fun out of it because of that.

[Gimym TILBERT]

Although I have to admit, some of the best games ever would be the oldest games ever remade into shiny high-tech forms.

New super mario bros? 






By the way, what about old movie before Griffith (or even after), or first animation. Music keeps being remake replay and we didn't get record when the medium was young...

We are still wanted our Sergueï Einsenstein of game...

[Valter]

Actually, I would consider New Super Marios Bros. Wii to be one of the most well designed games to come out recently, from a conceptual standpoint. Four player co-op, superguide for players who get stuck and need a hand, and extra, more difficult secrets for hardcore players- NSMBW basically has something for everybody. Neophyte, expert, solo, or party play.

Remaking older games using modern design doesn't sound like a bad idea to me.

[C.A. Sinner]

Also, I guess we can all agree that limited continues are bullshit, at least in non-arcade games.

[Ben_Hurr]

Although I have to admit, some of the best games ever would be the oldest games ever remade into shiny high-tech forms.

New super mario bros?  

Okay, you got me there.


And yes, limited continues are retarded outside of arcade games.  Strangely, CAPCOM is notorious for putting them in everything.

[Gimym TILBERT]

Also, I guess we can all agree that limited continues are bullshit, at least in non-arcade games.

Absolutly

They keep a nerf version of it in NSMBWii that's just annoying in single player. But with 4 player it's just GENIUS. As long everybody don't have 0 life at the same time, while failing a level, lifes get reset and the game keep going. That alone completely change the game dynamics, the risk/rewards and social dynamics.

[Squiggly_P]

InkBot your avatar is the best thing ever. Puts me in the mood right before I read your posts.

It makes me read everything posted in Carlin's voice.

I would argue with his statement that people don't say that modern movies/music/literature isn't as good as classic examples.  He brings up the Beatles, and aside from the white album and Abbey Road, I hate them.  Sure, just about every album has some songs I can dig, and I can respect them for experimenting with different styles and themes, but I'd easily prefer to listen to something more modern like The Dear Hunters or Madder Mortem.  I love prog music, but I'm not a huge fan of Pink Floyd either...

With films...  forget it.  How many people do you know who would rather watch Citizen Kane or Casablanca rather than something newer?  I love old films and old foreign films, but filmmaking has progressed as well, and a lot of the stylistic decisions of older films will feel really dated and cheesy by today's standards.  I also firmly believe that while there were many great actors in the past, there are tons of great actors today who have benefited from having such a pool of talent to learn from.  This is probably the same with music.  While a lot of bands are in it to make some cash and will gladly rip off some other band's sound, there are plenty of musicians out there pushing further and further, using their inspirations as a starting point.

With games, I feel that maybe the fact that it's a purely technologically driven market at this point is one of the reasons it appears to be evolving so rapidly.  Rarely do you see a game that focuses on having a specific artistic 'style'.  They seem to focus more on technical specs and realism.  That's fine for now, I suppose, but just as kids today look back at the NES and find it ugly and blocky, kids in 20 years are going to look back at today's games and hate it for the same reasons a 30 year old might find it nostalgic.

You ask a kid today if they'd rather watch Star Wars or Avatar, and I'd wager that the majority of them would rather go see Avatar.  You give them a Harry Potter book or The Hobbit, which would they read?  You hand them Metal Gear 4 or Metal Gear Solid and they'll prefer 4.  Resident Evil 5 vs Resident Evil?  Super Mario Bros vs Mario Galaxy?  In some ways, it's a benefit for them that they can look at the originals without nostalgia getting in the way, but it's also a loss for the future if no one can go back and appreciate the originals.  That's one of the reasons I think it's a shame that games just vanish.  You can buy some of the more popular titles on the various 'live arcade', but that will only cover less than 1% of the total number of games that were made.  You can get Beatles albums on CD, you can get Citizen Kane on DVD and Blu Ray (soon :D), but you can't play Burger Time unless you can find the rom or actually, physically have a copy of it on some platform.

So while games might be the next great artform, it's still hobbled by a lack of - standards?  compatibility? - and that's probably going to hurt us historically.  I wouldn't mind trying out some C64 or Amiga games, but I'll be damned if I know where to look for copies of that stuff, and I've never tried to emulate one of those systems.  Stores don't sell them anymore.  What other artform out there actively shuts out it's own history?  And why am I taking this so seriously?  I'm gonna go get drunk.

[Richard Kain]

The potential that games represent has improved dramatically. But the actual quality of a game is not dependent on the technology that runs it. All the potential in the world is worthless if it is not implemented correctly. This is a major issue that the game industry is dealing with. A lot of developers are focusing on the technology, and the quality of their titles is suffering for it. (games with great graphics, but no soul, fun-factor, or lasting appeal)

A retro game with personality will have lasting appeal. A modern game with much better production values, but no real personality or creative expression will be forgotten in the modern glut of releases. The technology behind games allows them to run, but the creativity that goes into their production is what allows them to endure.