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TIGSource ForumsCommunityTownhallForum IssuesArchived subforums (read only)Archived ProjectsIndie BrawlIndie Brawl: Guarding
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Contrary
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« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2010, 11:10:30 PM »

I'm not sure what you mean by that.

Like, when you imput a move while you're blocking an attack and it comes out as soon as the blockstun is over.

And it's going to be a blanket two frames for every move? With all the long, pretty animation, I reckon that everything blocked will equal a free jab/grab. And with how strong jabs are in this game...

Edit: I play Smash Bros on the computers at school all the time and no one has problems with 8 button layouts (Directions, A, B, Z, and R).
« Last Edit: March 28, 2010, 11:03:28 AM by Contrary » Logged
shig
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« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2010, 05:16:28 AM »

I don't like down arrow for blocking. It's a more minimalistic control scheme but not necessarily the simpler. It would be really awkward to block in the air or right after running. Also, can you go from guarding to VS or VA instantaneously? If not that would be even more awkward since you'd have to release the down button to press again to do a VS.
Anyways, does guarding have endlag? Like, any at all when you release the block button?

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Winterous
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« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2010, 05:51:06 AM »

It would be really awkward to block in the air

Blocking would probably be impossible while in the air anyway.
Your point about the vS / vA is good though.
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Soulliard
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« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2010, 12:13:21 PM »

I'm not sure what you mean by that.

Like, when you imput a move while you're blocking an attack and it comes out as soon as the blockstun is over.
Pretty much every move in Indie Brawl works like that, so blocking will work the same way.

Quote
And it's going to be a blanket two frames for every move? With all the long, pretty animation, I reckon that everything blocked will equal a free jab/grab. And with how strong jabs are in this game...
No, it will have to vary from one attack to another. I was using 2 frames as a reference point.

Quote
Edit: I play Smash Bros on the computers at school all the time and no one has problems with 8 button layouts (Directions, A, B, Z, and R).
Adding an extra button complicates things a little, but a shield button should be pretty intuitive. I'm more worried about the keyboard locking up when more than 1 player is playing.

I don't like down arrow for blocking. It's a more minimalistic control scheme but not necessarily the simpler. It would be really awkward to block in the air or right after running. Also, can you go from guarding to VS or VA instantaneously? If not that would be even more awkward since you'd have to release the down button to press again to do a VS.
Anyways, does guarding have endlag? Like, any at all when you release the block button?
If down was used for blocking, you wouldn't be able to block in the air, and you could go to vS and vA straight from blocking.

I imagine guarding would have a small amount of endlag, which would vary from one character to another.
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gimymblert
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« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2010, 12:33:40 PM »

Er maybe not relevant but what if
A+S= guard?
guard + arrow = dodge?

Same amount of button, more option, just like smash.
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battlerager
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« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2010, 01:31:25 PM »

Er maybe not relevant but what if
A+S= guard?
guard + arrow = dodge?

Same amount of button, more option, just like smash.

Would not be a good idea due to keylocking or whatever its called on pc keyboards
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Soulliard
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« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2010, 01:44:23 PM »

Plus, it's not very intuitive, and it's more difficult to do than pressing a single button.
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Bremze
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« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2010, 04:03:47 PM »

Just brainstorming, maybe dodge could be a perfectly timed block and it would lock up your skills for the usual block cooldown but allow you to move around freely during that time?
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Eagle0600
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« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2010, 01:32:29 AM »

Probably not a good idea. Why allow movement as a reward for blocking well?
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jwk5
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« Reply #29 on: March 31, 2010, 05:14:36 AM »

Why not do the usual fighting game route of Left + Left = Dash Left, Right + Right = Dash Right?
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shig
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« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2010, 05:26:22 AM »

I don't like down arrow for blocking. It's a more minimalistic control scheme but not necessarily the simpler. It would be really awkward to block in the air or right after running. Also, can you go from guarding to VS or VA instantaneously? If not that would be even more awkward since you'd have to release the down button to press again to do a VS.
Anyways, does guarding have endlag? Like, any at all when you release the block button?
If down was used for blocking, you wouldn't be able to block in the air, and you could go to vS and vA straight from blocking.

I imagine guarding would have a small amount of endlag, which would vary from one character to another.
But then, if we go with down for block, would the endlag be ignored if you do a VS or VA?
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Soulliard
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« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2010, 02:43:17 PM »

You're right. If down was chosen as the control for guarding, there could not be any endlag.
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mokesmoe
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« Reply #32 on: April 02, 2010, 08:48:39 PM »

I think a seperate block button is looking more and more appealing.
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Soulliard
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« Reply #33 on: September 13, 2010, 03:04:59 PM »

It looks like this will be the next major change I add. Here's what I'm thinking at the moment.

Guarding will be initiated by holding the down key while on the ground. There is no delay between entering and exiting the guarding state, so it will not effect the use of any attacks.

Dropping through platforms will be done by double-tapping down.

If an attack hits while guarding, it will do only a percentage of its normal damage. This amount will vary from character to character, ranging from 10% (Blue Knight) to 40% (Liero).

The attack will also deal knockback as normal, but it will be reduced. If the guarding character has not taken much damage, it will reduce knockback by a significant amount, but if the guarding character has taken a lot of damage, it will only reduce knockback by a little.

Certain attacks, including grabs, large explosions, certain items, environmental hazards, and some heavy attacks will be unblockable.

I haven't decided yet, I'm considering making powerful attacks more effective against guarding.

Let me know what you think. Bear in mind that these may not be the final mechanics for guarding, but since they will be relatively simple to implement, they should be a good starting point.
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ink.inc
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« Reply #34 on: September 13, 2010, 03:20:15 PM »

How are these going to be implemented? Is it going to require another set of sprites? Or will we just go with a glowy bubble a la SSB? And if these will be implemented, will they make the shield skills of characters like Naija and Xoda obsolete?
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« Reply #35 on: September 13, 2010, 04:11:44 PM »

Characters had shield skills in SSB too, and they weren't obsolete. Naija's shield skill reflects projectiles, and Xoda's shield skill is a counter, so that anyone who tries to attack her gets hit instead. All regular shields do is absorb damage; shield skills return damage.
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Soulliard
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« Reply #36 on: September 13, 2010, 04:44:30 PM »

A new set of sprites would be best in the long run, but for now, bubbles will do.

Defensive abilities will still be useful, since they are stronger in their intended roles than guarding would be.

Naija, Liero and Iji have reflectors that prevent all damage from projectiles and turns them on their creators.
GK's absorbtion absorbs all damage from projectiles and turns it into Bonesaw energy.
Xoda's shield creates a temporary barrier against projectiles.
Turner's counter stops all damage and deals retaliation damage to the attacker.
Trilby's smoke bomb prevents all damage and grants some good mobility.
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Contrary
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« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2010, 07:36:52 PM »

Doing 40% damage and still doing knockback sounds pretty tough. What are the frames looking like? Are there many moves that are + on block? Are there moves which are punishable?
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Soulliard
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« Reply #38 on: September 13, 2010, 08:01:17 PM »

Doing 40% damage and still doing knockback sounds pretty tough.
Yeah, the exact numbers might be adjusted.

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What are the frames looking like?
So they don't interfere with vA or vS attacks, there won't be any delay when entering or leaving a guarding stance. The amount of knockback on a successful block will vary with the attack and the character's damage.

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Are there many moves that are + on block?
Not sure quite what you mean by this.

Quote
Are there moves which are punishable?
I'm sure there will be, though that will be dependent on the exact situation surrounding the block. Were there any you had in mind?
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Contrary
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« Reply #39 on: September 14, 2010, 04:38:21 PM »

Oh so there will be no delay leaving block?

I guess that makes the concept of having a + on block move, a move which, upon impact renders the opponent immobile for more frames than it takes to finish the move, impossible. But wouldn't that make a lot of moves punishable? How many frames is the basic A? Of course knockback is a factor as well...

I didn't have any moves specifically in mind, just some of the better moves could be weakened a bit. I find GK a very spam friendly character, as the last time I got my friends to play IB with me, Naija still had her physical block and it was sometimes hazardous to break out of spam. I think that top tier characters like Liero and Xoda could easily be toned down with making a blocked shotgun or a slide kick mean a free hit for the other guy,

But I'm definitely looking forward to the next version.
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