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[shig]

I don't like down arrow for blocking. It's a more minimalistic control scheme but not necessarily the simpler. It would be really awkward to block in the air or right after running. Also, can you go from guarding to VS or VA instantaneously? If not that would be even more awkward since you'd have to release the down button to press again to do a VS.
Anyways, does guarding have endlag? Like, any at all when you release the block button?

If down was used for blocking, you wouldn't be able to block in the air, and you could go to vS and vA straight from blocking.

I imagine guarding would have a small amount of endlag, which would vary from one character to another.

But then, if we go with down for block, would the endlag be ignored if you do a VS or VA?

[Soulliard]

You're right. If down was chosen as the control for guarding, there could not be any endlag.

[mokesmoe]

I think a seperate block button is looking more and more appealing.

[Soulliard]

It looks like this will be the next major change I add. Here's what I'm thinking at the moment.

Guarding will be initiated by holding the down key while on the ground. There is no delay between entering and exiting the guarding state, so it will not effect the use of any attacks.

Dropping through platforms will be done by double-tapping down.

If an attack hits while guarding, it will do only a percentage of its normal damage. This amount will vary from character to character, ranging from 10% (Blue Knight) to 40% (Liero).

The attack will also deal knockback as normal, but it will be reduced. If the guarding character has not taken much damage, it will reduce knockback by a significant amount, but if the guarding character has taken a lot of damage, it will only reduce knockback by a little.

Certain attacks, including grabs, large explosions, certain items, environmental hazards, and some heavy attacks will be unblockable.

I haven't decided yet, I'm considering making powerful attacks more effective against guarding.

Let me know what you think. Bear in mind that these may not be the final mechanics for guarding, but since they will be relatively simple to implement, they should be a good starting point.

[John Sandoval]

How are these going to be implemented? Is it going to require another set of sprites? Or will we just go with a glowy bubble a la SSB? And if these will be implemented, will they make the shield skills of characters like Naija and Xoda obsolete?

[Sir Raptor]

Characters had shield skills in SSB too, and they weren't obsolete. Naija's shield skill reflects projectiles, and Xoda's shield skill is a counter, so that anyone who tries to attack her gets hit instead. All regular shields do is absorb damage; shield skills return damage.

[Soulliard]

A new set of sprites would be best in the long run, but for now, bubbles will do.

Defensive abilities will still be useful, since they are stronger in their intended roles than guarding would be.

Naija, Liero and Iji have reflectors that prevent all damage from projectiles and turns them on their creators.
GK's absorbtion absorbs all damage from projectiles and turns it into Bonesaw energy.
Xoda's shield creates a temporary barrier against projectiles.
Turner's counter stops all damage and deals retaliation damage to the attacker.
Trilby's smoke bomb prevents all damage and grants some good mobility.

[Contrary]

Doing 40% damage and still doing knockback sounds pretty tough. What are the frames looking like? Are there many moves that are + on block? Are there moves which are punishable?

[Soulliard]

Doing 40% damage and still doing knockback sounds pretty tough.

Yeah, the exact numbers might be adjusted.

What are the frames looking like?

So they don't interfere with vA or vS attacks, there won't be any delay when entering or leaving a guarding stance. The amount of knockback on a successful block will vary with the attack and the character's damage.

Are there many moves that are + on block?

Not sure quite what you mean by this.

Are there moves which are punishable?

I'm sure there will be, though that will be dependent on the exact situation surrounding the block. Were there any you had in mind?

[Contrary]

Oh so there will be no delay leaving block?

I guess that makes the concept of having a + on block move, a move which, upon impact renders the opponent immobile for more frames than it takes to finish the move, impossible. But wouldn't that make a lot of moves punishable? How many frames is the basic A? Of course knockback is a factor as well...

I didn't have any moves specifically in mind, just some of the better moves could be weakened a bit. I find GK a very spam friendly character, as the last time I got my friends to play IB with me, Naija still had her physical block and it was sometimes hazardous to break out of spam. I think that top tier characters like Liero and Xoda could easily be toned down with making a blocked shotgun or a slide kick mean a free hit for the other guy,

But I'm definitely looking forward to the next version.

[Soulliard]

Oh so there will be no delay leaving block?

Not normally (at least for now). But after blocking a hit, it will still cause some knockback and stunning (though it will not cause the target to stop guarding). I guess I should have explained that better.

I guess that makes the concept of having a + on block move, a move which, upon impact renders the opponent immobile for more frames than it takes to finish the move, impossible.

Under this proposed system, there will be moves like that. It will be partially determined by the target's health, though, with more attacks becoming safe as the target becomes more badly damaged.

I didn't have any moves specifically in mind, just some of the better moves could be weakened a bit.

Blocking will have a huge effect on game balance, and should tone down the power of some characters. But you're right; this change will require some significant rebalancing afterward.

[-Frikman-]

even tough there'll be some unblock-able moves we still need guard broke (after a fixed amount of damage of course). this should work similar to how SSB guard broke works, what i mean: a bunch of seconds stunned. we'll need sprites for this so other posibility is to loose the ability to guard and a considerable reduce on the movement speed after a guard broke 

[Soulliard]

Why would we need guards to break? There's already chip damage to prevent guard-spamming.

[Soulliard]

Here's some specifics. All subject to change after playtesting, of course.

% of chip damage taken by character
15 (actually has a shield)
Dwarf
Blue Knight

20 (weapon well-suited to guarding, actually known for blocking attacks in source)
Golden Knight
Turner
Barkley

25 (weapon poorly-suited to guarding, energy shield)
Naija
Nikujin
Iji
Xoda
Trilby
Spelunker
Reimu

30 (weapon can't be used for guarding, unarmed)
Liero
Lyle
Gish
Madotsuki


List of unblockable attacks currently in game:
Naija:
vS

GK:
All attacks in bonesaw mode (except S)

Liero:
S

Nikujin:
vS

Iji:
>S
^S

Lyle:
>S
vS

Turner:
>S
^S

Trilby:
>S

Xoda:
>S

Dwarf:
A
>A
S

All Attacks with Nanoblast

Death Worm
Death Worm Bombs

Red Cube
Goo Ball
Akuji
Rope Burner
Cabadath
Sexy Hiker


Other Notes:
Golden Knight's bonesaw charges at the full rate even if his attacks are blocked.
Trilby's >A steals an item even if it is blocked

[Sir Raptor]

Just out of curiosity, will we also have dodging, or is that biting off more than we can chew?