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1034690 Posts in 41740 Topics- by 33335 Members - Latest Member: martocao

August 21, 2014, 01:59:16 PM
TIGSource ForumsPlayerGamesHumble indie bundle - pay whatever you want
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Author Topic: Humble indie bundle - pay whatever you want  (Read 54830 times)
ஒழுக்கின்மை
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« Reply #390 on: December 17, 2010, 01:47:05 AM »

looking at that pic again, he has pretty good abs (low bodyfat) but still has relatively small biceps, he could work on those curls a bit more

also while we're on the topic, i love this ronnie coleman quote:

"Everybody wants to be a bodybuilder, but don't nobody want to lift no heavy-ass weights."

that quote applies to like everything, not just bodybuilding
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« Reply #391 on: December 17, 2010, 02:04:49 AM »

It's nice to see that the TIGS community is still ace at conjuring up a drama out of anything...
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« Reply #392 on: December 17, 2010, 02:08:24 AM »

It's nice to see that the TIGS community is still ace at conjuring up a drama out of anything...

Hey! That's a racially charged statement!  Mock Anger
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speeder
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« Reply #393 on: December 17, 2010, 04:15:01 AM »

Hello there.

I was one of the first CC bashers this time... I got the bundle as soon the site went up (actually I managed to get the download code before the automated e-mail system told me the bundle was up... seriously, someone need to make that e-mail system less lazy Tongue), and 20 minutes later I was here and on my own company irc channel bashing CC...

I must say that it was quite... strong, reaction to it, but I will explain:



I AM JEALOUS


Because currently I have -30.000 USD, I am sleeping in average 4 hours each day (literally, I work at night), and to make my current game I am taking even more loans, yet people don't want to play my game even for free... But I see Data and his half-crap (sorry Data, but it IS half-crap, when it is work it is awesome, but most of the time it don't work...) and several other games getting MONEY, while I am going bankrupt here (literally too).

I asked for some donations, so I can buy a Mac and make a Mac build, I've got like... 20 USD. From one guy. And that is it.

I visit the forums and see fanboys of games that don't even exist yet (yes, games with only concept art and planning and no programming I am looking to you), I see communities of non-existing games with several thousand followers, games in alpha stage (not only Minecraft... I mean several games, don't get me wrong here for specifically mentioning alpha, I mean alpha as in testing phase and really broken) that are getting sales, and I don't get people to play my game for free... It is really upsetting.

The first humble bundle in my opinion was MUUUUUUCH better than this one. Even with this one having Braid, Osmos and Machinarium (that are awesome games, I love them, specially Osmos :D), plainly because I could download any game there, and know I would not get upset with the game... You know, I play games to have fun, when a game make me waste my precious development time and make me upset, I become REALLY upset.

So, sorry for all the bashing.

And expect more anyway (I am quite acid... although not to Super Joe levels, I try to control myself...)
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« Reply #394 on: December 17, 2010, 04:23:55 AM »

Hand ClapWTF
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C.A. Silbereisen
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« Reply #395 on: December 17, 2010, 04:58:00 AM »

When I read the last few pages, I was reminded of Dwarf Fortress before its last major update.

Tarn Adams delivered. Will this Data guy deliver? Blink (No, not the fists! No, not my pretty face! Nooo!)
Tarn updated his devlog almost every day when he was working on DF2010. He also had a neat list of the goals for the next version and how far along he was with each of them. I never had any doubt he would eventually release it.

That's the kind of thing I was talking about earlier. If you want your fans to understand that you're working hard on your game, let them in on your dev process.
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« Reply #396 on: December 17, 2010, 05:00:54 AM »

Erm... speeder is there not someone you can talk to, like a psychiatrist, doctor or something. Not being funny or anything, but if what you say is true you are potentially destroying your life. Someone in $30,000 worth of debt shouldn't be considering taking out more loans. You seem to have got yourself into a self-destructing mental spiral where you believe the only way to get yourself out of trouble is in fact putting you into far worse trouble. I seriously hope you are exaggerating your situation, because if not it sounds like you are in some deep, deep trouble.
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« Reply #397 on: December 17, 2010, 05:29:20 AM »

@Oddball

No, I am not exagerating...

This is what happen when the bandwagon catches you...

To explain: Since I was a child I wanted to make games, I would spend afternoons toying with excite bike map editor, then later with Dink Smallwood, then Age of Empires, and also board games (yep, I made board game mods...).

I started taking loans a long time ago, because education here is crap unless you pay what you don't have (average monthly wage here: 300 USD, average school, not even college, tuition: 500 USD), of course, for normal schooling it was most my parents that paid it and got in debt...

In the year I had to join college, the black people quota was introduced, I refused to join a college because I was black, I wanted to join as a "normal" person that went already in the test, but in the end I DID passed the test, but since I was in the lower end of the rankings, some black people I don't know got there in place (note that I am partially black too, it is just that I tought it would be humiliating joining as black person while taking a easier test, like if black people are stupid or something).

My parents, that were still in deep debts became mad at me failing to join a public school, and forced me to choose a private one... At that day, a single "game school" existed here, it was about Game Design (and I don't even knew what was game design... I thought it had something to do with programming...), I joined that school, since my parents had no more money, I took a loan myself to pay it (the several thousand debt loan I mentioned earlier).

Then the thing became a fad, in my year there was in total around the whole country 80 game students, in the next it was 200, currently it is more than 2000, yet if you sum all professional game developers, including indies and AAA and outsourcing you get 500...

What happen is that internship is mandatory, and I don't got my internship yet, thus I have:

To pay the huge loan...
Get a internship in a 500 people wide industry while 2000 students are also seeking internship. And do that in Game Design (that here noone hire, usually the "game designer" is the owner of the company).

All that while avoiding getting killed (and that is getting harder and harder).

As I see now I don't have much of a choice, I need to make a glorious game, that is sufficient good to grab that internship, and then use that same glorious game to get a job in other country... Or sell it and move to some countries that allow you to move in as "entepreneur" if you have sufficient money (like, 100.000 CAD if you want to move to Canada)

But actually right now I am less worse than I was 1 year ago when I nearly died while finishing university (ie: I went in super-crunch mode for 3 months to finish the final university project, because my team was unreliable and I don't wanted to spend several more thousand dollars to repeat classes, failing in that project result in needing to do again about 7 classes, to the point that I got 20kg fatter in those 3 months, and got several other health problems).
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« Reply #398 on: December 17, 2010, 05:38:10 AM »

Quote
No, I am not exagerating...
In which case, are you going to follow his advice?

It's great to be enthusiastic about games (I am enthusiastic about games, and have made sacrifices in order to do so), but - I dunno, I guess you're conscious of how much you might be fucking yourself up, which is something :/

I had a full-time job, and worked on stuff in my spare time.  I did so without sacrificing my quality of living, however I had to make a different sort of game to the games I had made when I was doing it full-time.  But it was still possible to do stuff that felt worthwhile.  Lots of people on tigsource have full-time jobs doing non-indie stuff, debts, families and manage to still work on games in a way that makes their lives better, not worse.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2010, 05:50:26 AM by increpare » Logged
speeder
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« Reply #399 on: December 17, 2010, 05:58:22 AM »

It is a question of speed, every day I stay here, is another day that I might get killed (I am not being paranoid here, I saw many people dieing around me, and I get guns pointed at me specifically several times too), and here full-time jobs regularly available have crap pay (300 USD or even less), and it is too dangerous (even a stupid job, like supermarket cashier, is too dangerous where I live... the supermarket near my house get raided 3 times per year more or less).
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« Reply #400 on: December 17, 2010, 06:29:57 AM »

I had a friend in the Gaza strip once, every time I talked to him and asked him how he was, he would say something like "terrible, someone I knew got shot today".  I tried to help him out with visa stuff, but in the end I found I didn't have the energy or imagination to continue staying in touch with him Sad

I don't think I can help you with your life, but I can give feedback on your game (I don't think you've posted it anywhere yet?), and there are people here who can give you info as to how to go about making money.  

[I assume, given the context, that derailing this thread a little bit is ok - if mods want to split it that's fine by me]
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« Reply #401 on: December 17, 2010, 07:01:28 AM »

Thanks :D

Any help is welcome... And the game has a post in the feedback forum, 2 on the devlog forum (one for the game, that noone bothered to read or comment and thus I don't bothered to update after a while, and one about the arcade cabinet I am building), it got featured on IndieDB Indie of the Month in August (or July... don't remember exactly), it was shown on the IndieDB IOTY trailer, I posted it on several other forums (even gamedev.net), I made a IndieGoGo thing (like Kickstarter for non-US people), posted in several sites, even shareware sites have old versions of the game...

That is what made me upset with CC in the Bundle, I spend 60% of my time trying to talk about the game and spread it, but somehow it is not working at all...

And sorry for derailing the thread, it was not my intention >.<
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« Reply #402 on: December 17, 2010, 07:10:40 AM »

Oh, right, paddle wars Smiley
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Data
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« Reply #403 on: December 17, 2010, 07:20:42 AM »

Speeder, thank you for your honesty. If it makes you feel better at all, I am in a comparable amount of debt right now. By the looks of the bundle sales stats, it won't be for much longer, but I was also in the same situation when I first started selling Cortex Command exactly three years ago. That sales event fixed my financial situation back then too. However, if your game projects are really not generating much interest right now, I would suggest you consider a temporary strategy to right your finances before coming back and giving living off of gamedev another go.. If you have the technical chops to put a computer game together, there's lots of boring but lucrative contracting/freelancing opportunities you can get into.

Matthew: Arbitrary because the point where you go from finding the release interval to be 'acceptable' to 'unacceptable' is arbitrarily and subjectively set by you. As a game developer yourself, you happen to be exceptionally well-informed about what it takes to make a game, but I still feel it is unfair and unwarranted for you to project your own development time estimates and expectations onto me and how quickly I choose to make progress on my project. Your Blurst games were made in ~8 weeks each, but Cactus churns out a complete game in a weekend.. Does that make you Blurst guys unacceptably lazy bastards? The average game consumer has an even less of an idea - let alone justification - to project their progress expectations onto me or any developer.

I understand people's wishful thinking, and I'd also be delighted if I could make my games in one tenth of the time!! Alas, it won't happen, based on an endless list of variables, such as: how I design the scope of my projects, the tools I use, my work habits, how I choose to balance gamedev in my overall life, etc, etc.. and no amount of sarcastic comments, snide remarks, or outright fan forum rage is going to really change any of those variables.. but instead cause irritation and probably less motivation in me to work.

As for the "implicit contracts" of communities and all that jazz, I only have to say this: I am voluntarily making the game for MY fun and profit. The customers are voluntarily playing, modding, and evangelizing it for THEIR fun and "profit" (if not monetary, then psychic and social profit). They are not doing those things for my sake, c'mon! I don't owe them anything for doing that, just as they don't owe me anything for building the damn thing and enabling their community to exist in the first place.

I spent a lot of extra effort to design my game to be as moddable as I possibly could make it, and am super happy and excited that what I've made is being used and enjoyed by so many people. It gives me joy to see it bring joy to others. That doesn't mean they owe me. Their enjoyment and enthusiasm doesn't mean I owe them. It's a wonderful thing when people can come together and voluntarily partake in the fun of making, playing, modifying, and sharing experiences about a game. This is the sole reason and justification for the existence of the fan community. Vague, creepy concepts like "emotional investments" and "implicit contracts" have no rightful place in this picture at all.

As far as I'm concerned, such phrases are just shitty rhetorical tools to try to guilt me into working harder, communicating more, and otherwise do things I prefer not to do, just so the wishes (faster progress, more info) of the fans can be served. As I've already said, I am sympathetic to the fans' desire for more transparency into the dev process, and am willing to compromise and come up with better solutions that work for both me and them. All I ask in return is that there is a modicum of respect for how I choose to live my life, spend my time/money, and run my project.

Thanks!
- D
« Last Edit: December 17, 2010, 07:53:06 AM by Data » Logged
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« Reply #404 on: December 17, 2010, 07:34:32 AM »

I like cortex command, and I like you.  Hand Thumbs Up Left
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