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TIGSource ForumsCommunityDevLogs"i.M.A.G.E. Zero"
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Author Topic: "i.M.A.G.E. Zero"  (Read 19560 times)
baconman
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« on: May 11, 2010, 07:39:52 PM »


Spiffy new beta logo!

infinite
Multiple
Aspect
Gaming
Experiment (IE: Zero - "One" will likely = Experience instead, as the followup will likely be more fleshed out)


Admittedly, this is something that is on it's third or fourth draft on paper/concept. It's been dabbled together, expanded in design, simplified in design again, and now it's just at that "fine tuning" between what is core and what is enough flavor to distingish it.

The game is basically a procedrually-created game about various gaming styles; geared to change the feel of itself somewhat with each new play, by mixing up different variables. The object of the game is to do as well as you can in each style of gaming, in order to produce the best character (and thus, highest score) you can. For the time being, I'm going with 6 somewhat-complimentary main gameplay styles:

-Platform Action (akin mostly to Megaman and Sonic, but with elements like Pipe Mazes and Barrel Cannons, too)
-Action Adventure (think Gauntlet meets Zelda, possibly meets Zelda II)
-Racing (though this has been revised to "multi-lane platforming," ala Excitebike for now)
-Space-Shooter (for now, going side-scrolling to better compliment other aspects)
-Fighting
-Musical Gaming (GH/RB, DDR, ParaPara, IIDX, and now-also-Aquaria-inspired)

(It would also be nice to see how to get this to stop jumping up as I type...)

Elements of the game to procedurally randomize:

-Characters' appearance, colorization and abilities (on a somewhat per-genre basis)
-Levels and layouts
-Musical structures and note/dancecharts
-Particular objectives of gaming types (speed runs, completions, kills, etc.)


IMAGINARY MOCKUP (for now):

"NGPC fighter sprites running in Sonic The Hedgehog, "throwing" shootable weapons like Zelda/Gauntlet," occasionally riding animal buddies like in DKC (or racing them through levels), mixed with areas of technical fighting (like 3rd Strike or Garou:MotW) and variable super/combo systems (like CvS2 Grooves on random select, but all actually useful ones), and song-pattern-based, dynamic soundtrack generation that you can actually play on GH/RB/DDR/IIDX controllers."
« Last Edit: December 23, 2010, 07:00:57 PM by baconman » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2010, 08:11:34 PM »

The character development, once completely implemented, should mix-and-match a head and body, and colorize the character to begin with. (But for current WIP, I'm starting off using NGPC sprites, like ones from Fatal Fury 1st Contact, SNK vs Cap: MOTM. Hey, it's a start, sorta...)

From there, it will enable a set of abilities that correspond to the different genres, giving each character a unique feel about them overall; allowing for a different-but-kinda-balanced variation of gameplay; each taking some influence of other titles and balancing them out a bit. The game will also map a specific "touch" to the musical development, sort of like a seed that will reflect in that character's procedurally-generated soundtrack... so even as the different-feeling tunes are procedurally developed, there's always a "signature style" about the tracks involving said character.

The game itself will also track a few variables using a few bonus games, including reflexes, reactions, general "luck" (success rate), and habits. As the game ends, it will save about 50-or-so (subject to change), to reappear as NPC's in later games, and act according to players' own gameplay. This will also result in some reocurring musical themes, and perhaps an interesting "friends and foes" system, particularly regarding the fighting and shooter aspects.
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« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2010, 08:36:44 PM »

Originally, I was going for 15-16 "settings," but for sake of simplicity, I've narrowed it down to 11 in total. However, for sake of experience variety, each game will probably only utilize 5 or 6 of them upon each playthrough. The overall number of settings may increase as development continues, too. After all, when replayability and variety of action is equal to how much more there is to discover in the game... there's no sense in putting it all out there in just one sitting, is there? But here's what I'm going with for now:

(BRICK CITY)
A setting based on a combination of urban and castle-like settings. There will be few pitfalls and deathtraps here, which will mainly focus on combating foes, often appearing in crowds.

(BUSHY JUNGLE)
This jungly area has more pitfalls and spike traps, and more rope/vine-oriented action to it. Perhaps some DKC influence here regarding barrel cannons, too.

(CHEMICAL SEWER)
Features mixed dry-wet action, along with open areas connected with tighter passageways. Other factors include currents and pipe mazes, inspried by SMB games.

(JACKPOT CIRCUS)
Combines aspects of circus, slot machine, pinball, and rollercoaster influence in this very clowny place.

(UNDERSEA BASE)
The obligatory totally-underwater area of the game, may be dropped as it coincides a lot in concept with the Chemical Sewer, alternating between open areas and tighter passageways connecting them.

(TALL TOWER)
Vertically-focused action takes place here, with various trick blocks and platforms, and plenty of flying enemies.

(ICY RUINS)
This is basically two complimentary concepts fudged together. Unsteady footing and mystery abound in this place fill of traps and hidden passages.

(ALTITUDE CANYON)
Combines mountainside cliffhanger action with "air themed" gameplay - features many things in common with Tall Tower, but in a more horizontal (and deadly) arrangement.

(VOLCANIC CAVE)
Focused on fast action - move forward and down as quickly as you can to escape various deathtraps. While enemies do appear here, they're more like obstacles to avoid.

(GRAVITY CORE)
Inspired by such fun areas as Gravity Man's stage from MM5 and Death Egg in S&K; this somewhat mazelike area is focused on rotating and flipping the playfield in different ways in order to find your way to the finish.

(DEADZONE)
A precisely-calculated area which combines different elements of other areas' gameplay (along with a few unique ones) with a narrow margin of error to act within; along with a somewhat urgency to the pacing - not quite as speed-focued as Volcanic Cave, but far more trecharous. Akin to a somewhat easier "IWBTG."

Graphically, I'm currently aiming for 48x48 foreground tiles, "masked" for transparency with various curves and inclines, and finally layered for "flooring," much like what appears in MM8/Bass and DKC; but simpler in color/shading. There will also be a semi-transparent "forebackground," and a somewhat universal set of "sky/horizon" backgrounds.
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« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2010, 08:45:24 PM »

Though most of the humanistic foes will be "player sprites" as well, the game will also support variations of critters to fill in typical baddie gaps. The critters will be color-coded, ones matching your characters' colors will be friendly (and usually appear near the start or middle of a level), where other colors will prove to act indifferently or hostile towards you. Most of them are designed to fit "animal buddy" purposes as well as key enemy types.

There will also be something akin to PokeMon's evolution system regarding them, where baby ones usually bumble about and are "protected" and can be hard to hit, as they "mature" they spawn 0-2 more baby ones and act more normally - and if they're around long enough, bigger "senior" ones will act like mini-minibosses. They will also factor heavily in "Race and Chase" scenes, the racing and space-shooter based portions of the game. These include:

-A cross between Buzzy Beetle and Metool, with a kickable shell (acts like Eddie as friendly)

-A spiky enemy that can execute a quick roll attack, but will be left open afterwards (friendly acts like Tango)

-A "Menus Mytrap," something like a Pirahna Plant and Chain Chomp put together.

-One similar to Batonton or Telly

-One akin to Robot Ride Armor + Big Eye

-Bees that patrol in patterns, meaner ones shooting at you, friendly ones shielding you like Gradius Options or Megaman Shield weapons

-Up n' Downs that will only appear in one or two pits in the level, trying to catch players off-guard. Friendly ones will act like pit-savers, but you'll have to act quickly!

-Octopus/Jellyfish enemies that travel in spurts, either in patterns or in pursuit of you (undecided what friendly function they'll serve)

-Small Bird will try to dive in on you, like a Moby from Zelda II or a Beezo from SMB2 (friendly ones act more like Pidge or Parry, and can give you a slow-decending jump boost by hanging on them, or help to combat foes above you)

-Bigger birds that will patrol and shoot at you, simply swing in and drop something (another baddie or powerup?) or simply act like Squawks/Coo as a friendly

-Spidery critter that will try to pounce you, friendly ones are akin to Squitter, but can stick to walls/ceilings and make weblines like "custom ropes" to tread

-Fast-moving dog will chase and try to pounce you, or act as some combination of Rush Bike and Rush Coil, boosting your mobility greatly

-An Ellie-inspired elephant, who can help in versatile ways, but as an enemy will generally sit still and constantly produce things to throw at you, or shoot at you

-A rhino or gator (or cross between them) that can charge really fast and defeat most in it's way, but has some trouble stopping or changing directions

-A froggie that will bound around or swim in spurts (think SMB3's frog suit) - this may or not completely overshadow the "Octopus/Jellyfish" critter, unfriendlies may act more like Lockjaw from DKC2

-Fishy friend akin to Enguarde or Kine, allowing for fast and precise underwater (but somewhat limited land) movement; unfriendlies will act more like Chomps from DKC, generally patrolling horizontally but with occasional wind-up and spurty charges


The idea is to cover the "critters" (and potential vehicles?) base here as simply as possible and then let the humanistic characters fill in other gaps. The humanistic ones will be the only ones that drop power-ups, btw.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2010, 02:43:21 PM by baconman » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2010, 10:08:17 PM »

This sounds like it will be a very interesting project. The one criticism I see right off the bat is that if the character you play is also procedurally randomized then that will create a great disparagement in the scores attainable during the play throughs.

Mind you, the procedurally generated levels and such will as well, but not to the extent as having, or not having, a good ability for a specific game style for instance.

If you are simply going for a personal best as far as score is concerned it may not be much of an issue, but if it is going to be at all competitive with a shared scoreboard or something of the like, you might want to think about using duplicate bridge-ish techniques?
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« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2010, 02:58:06 PM »

A very valid concern, Blindsight. And a particularly ironic one, given your signature. Wink

One method of addressing such concern is that the players beginning a game will be able to select from 3 generated ones to begin with, whichever they feel "more in tune with." This will also include their main level objectives, which will also vary from game to game; so you can go for a speed-runner or a treasure-hunter, or whatever fits your fancy that day. Scores and scoring bonuses will be based not only on "how well you do," but how well you "do what you're aiming to do" as well, which may take a little fiddling to balance out completely - but shouldn't prove to be impossible, either.

I am hoping the abilities will balance themselves out a little better, but it's rather true - though each is "equally created," it's very likely that they're not going to be "created equal." You'll have your uppers and your downers, and it'll show. This will also make for more interesting post-game NPC's, as not all "competitive/cooperative" NPC's will be "champ material," but a few just might be!

But the main reason for mixing up abilities is so that each game feels like another distinctive experience - one time the experience may feel akin to a Sonic game, and another time may feel more like a Castlevania; but with universal physics that are balanced enough to only give the variable abilities tactical advantages, not an outright "favoritism." (IE: There's no gamebreaking HyperViperBeam or MolecularShieldAssist) And some ability combos may result in a totally unique and distinctive feel as well.

Another balancer I'm considering, especially given the natural tendency to "themify" a level, is to have the level auto-designer reference seeds: one being a "level theme," and some others being the player's powers - especially where any puzzle-solving potential would exist. Thus, your abilities will generate any appropriate obstacles and/or puzzle-solving elements, instead of the other way around. This allows some freshness and variety to that gameplay element, while still measuring the appropriate (or creative) use of the powers that you have in a pretty overall balanced way.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2010, 05:39:51 PM by baconman » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2010, 03:30:17 PM »

Broadening on the platformer element first, each player will have 3 abilities that correspond with each button (for now, going with J/K/L; but subject to change), a swimming style variable, and a secondary objective/motivation apart from "passing the levels." There's a few other elements that tie into other gaming styles, I'll post those there; but for now, this will give some platformer-specific insight to consider.

OBJECTIVES:

-Find a Super Gem (often hidden invisibly, or maybe boss-protected - think "DK coins")
-Collect 6 Gems (more like your collectible-1up kind of item, KONG letters or the like, which may spawn obstacles along with their presence)
-Collect 100 coins (the levels will spawn between 110 and 120 of them altogether)
-Collect 10 secretly distinctive coins (like Yoshi's Island's "20 red coins" concept)
-Defeat at least 40 enemies
-Defeat 8 of a particular enemy (or the only 2 of the "Up n Down" kinds)
-Clear the level without taking any damage
-Clear the level in less than a minute

J-POWERS (weapon-based):

-Sword n' Shield (Can shoot ala Zelda, shield offers protection. Triple shots spread.)
-Power Axe (Heavier damage, can cleave enemies. Triple shots equal autofire.)
-Quick Bow (Shoots weaker spread shots, quicker. Triple shots equal autofire spreads.)
-Double Chakram (Think Yoshi Eggs or Mega Balls, here. Angled and bouncy. "Triple" shots will fire 4 instead of two.)
-Force Magic (Shoots spells of fair damage, high knockback. Triple shots fire three-wide, but forwards, ala Metroid's Spazer.)
-Blowtorch Magic (Weaker, but persistent "burning" damage, key in destroying some obstacles. Triple shots make for chain-attacking enemies, similar to Bomberman bombs.
-Swing Whip (Decent damage "overhead-swinging" whip attack, which can be used to swing across gaps by hitting key objects. Triple shots increase range and power.)
-Yo-Yo Zipline (Acts like Shadow Blade with better range, almost like Castlevania 4's whip system, and can by held and swung as such. Hitting surfaces will result in zipline-action like Zelda's Hookshot. Triple damage increases range and damage. Can be used to collect items, too.)
-Death Dagger (Acts like a MMX dash upon pressing button, you will inflict contact damage on unprotected enemies - but you still have to dodge shots to do so. Often 1HKO's, think Top Spin or Charge Kick, but done better/more versatile.)

K-POWERS (agility-based)

-Double Jump
-Wall Jump/Stick and Climb
-Gliding
-Spin Jump (think SMW-style, here)
-Super Crush (Yoshi's Island "Ground Pound" in essence, possible seismic effect on enemies)
-Air Dash
-Ninja Jump (allows charging your jump ala Mega Buster, for up to 200% higher and half-tile precise jumping, may be metered for convenience, and will correlate with running speed and tilecount*)
-Charge-up Freeflight (allows similar charging, followed by up to 4 seconds of free flight - like Tails without button-mashing)

*IE: the number of frames it takes you to "run one tile" will correspond with a half-tile of height - allowing a player who knows what they're doing to plan ahead with their exact jump precision - imagine the speedrun potential that could open up!)

L-POWERS (mobility-focused):

-Mega Slide (fit into tight gaps, quick evasion)
-Roll Jump (think DKC here, button will control rolling)
-Spin Dash (similar, but more Sonic in nature)
-Sonic Speed (150% running speed, allows traversing curves and walls without a "spring boost")
-Plasma Shield (think Pong or MM9-10 Proto Shield, here - but on the fly)
-Evasive Manuevers (changes your stance/walking so as to protect you from shots, but not the enemies themselves.)

SWIMMING:

-Bobbing (SMB style)
-Propelling (Kirby style)
-Dipping (assumes buoyancy, kind of a "reverse-SMB style")
-Wading (more DKC style)
-Vertical Low-G (classic Megaman, higher jumping potential, quicker falling potential)
-Horizontal Low-G (more like Sonic, same potential height, but slower falling limit)
« Last Edit: May 12, 2010, 03:40:47 PM by baconman » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2010, 04:47:00 PM »

In a slight diversion, now I'm gonna focus a little on the "dynamic music creation" aspect of the project. This is almost an entire project all of it's own, actually!

To begin with, the main design behind this is admittedly very BEMANI/GH/RB-inspired, and focused mostly on "harmonius layering." This isn't to say everything will play the same way, just that it will share common "pitch, tempo, and beat modifiers," to take otherwise-abstract strings of pattern-based text characters and edit them into sequences of harmonious, and even theme-fitting note arrangements. This will also include "dance charts," though they simply won't have audio cues associated with them.

They begin with fully-filled 8-character patterns, which then have appropriate additions and removals to fit certain musical beats and styles, and are then "trimmed and modified" in different "filtering patterns" to fit a mood or level of intensity. This step basically removes extraneous notes, and then adds appropriate sustains and/or rolls/riffs. The pitch and tempo are often seeded by various parts of the game to provide action-appropriate pacing and a sense of "mood;" and perhaps can even be used to smoothly "mix" two different tunes together at a point between musical phrases.

There is some variable gameplay-implicated things to it too, especially considering a character will play a particular musical role, and have a favorite "fun technique" that's also seeded in the song development as well - so that even as moods and tunes change, your character's "auto-gen soundtrack" will still have a distictive "signature sound" about it. A "drummer" character will often have drum-solo intros and more percussion-oriented songs than a "singer" would, for instance.

Easier and more fun-oriented play sections, or bonus minigames will usually use the sequences as full quarter-beats, more action-oriented play will arrange them as eighths, and really intense, fast-paced action and musical solos (and certain more technical styles, like rave, latin, or tropical beats) will arrange them (perhaps in pairs) as 1/16s. The composition phase then uses a lot of cut-copy-paste and overtype influence from there, making an actual songlike arrangement of "notes" out of them.

The result I'm going for is an easily geometrically-expansive (though not necessarily "unlimited") potential for dynamic musical development, in a format that's easy to "save" and reference consistently, but is still audiably sound and appropriate in it's design/layout. And always fun to play, too. (Musical gameplaywise, I'm not exactly big on "awkwardness difficulty," I think ideally-difficult songs to play should simply be a bigger complexity of more fun elements, all mixed together at an exciting pace. Not to say a little "oddness" is totally out-of-place, but just that it's something to be determined by the appropriate mood/setting. "Painkiller > Visions" and "TTFAF > The Impossible Song" are perfect illustrations of such concept.)

Layering of songs so far:

-Percussion/Drums
-Lead Guitar*
-Rhythm Guitar*
-Bass Guitar*
-Keyboard/Synth and DJ Scratching (double-layered for chords/melodies/combos thereof)
-"Singing" (based mostly on pitches, and somewhat "Aquaria-inspired" in it's execution... which may eventually reference a "rhyme/poetry database" for potential "lyrical inspiration," based on various poem structures and complimentary "syllables" - a "voice database" of syllables would prove to be ABSOLUTELY MASSIVE, though - so I doubt I'm going to go with that! Not that the idea couldn't work, mind you - but that's just WAAAAAY ahead of where I'm at with this.)
-"Step" charting for dance
-"Motion" charting for "dance2" (totally different kind of thing)

*Note: these will all be different difficulties of basic "Guitar play," not necessarily a "one or the other" kind of apprach in character-development. They will all be consistently independent, audiable musical layers in composition, however.

To clarify, even though 8 variables are all at work here, only 6 will appear in each aspect:

Compostion:

Drum
Lead G
Rhythm G
Bass G
Keyboard/Synth
Singing

Gameplay:

Guitar
Drums
Keyboard/Synth
Singing
Step Dancing
Motion Dancing


I may make "dance gameplay" available independently of instrumental gameplay, and then "seed" the step/motion charts to correspond with a character's instrument in places, particuarly during intros, solos, the "fun moves seed," and finales. Still debating on that.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2010, 05:23:31 PM by baconman » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2010, 08:40:26 PM »

The fighting game aspect is probably the part of this project which is more independent than the rest of the game. Overall flow of the fighting game will probably be much like PokeMon's trainer-badge kind of system, as you develop the fighting game skills of your character, and compete in a series of tournaments, each taking inspiration from different fighting games, and the different modes featured in them. There will be a natural progression involved, as single-character-oriented action will logically happen before multi-character action, but the challenges will be multi-linear, not too unlike progression in some MegaMan games (like 7/8 or the GB ones).

Each of the dojos will correspond with a special move set, which will focus on popular and recurring styles for the most part. All special moves in the game should be available to all characters, although some may be reanimated aesthetically, due to graphical constraints (for now); and the challenges you face will be determined partially by the order you take them on in. Your first two will influence your primary and special move set - with fully-variable characters, your primary style will influence your punches and kicks, and you'll be allowed to mix and match two sets of specials/supers. You can also choose (not random!) between different input command sets, to compliment different player styles. (Rollers can roll, chargers can charge, tappers/mashers can mash.)

In the end, I'm going for a 5-button layout, much like KoF XI; but with a variable function mapped to the fifth button to make the gameplay change somewhat to resemble different titles; such as launchers/air combos, KoF-style rolling, or parrys. Another variable will be akin to the Groove/-ISM system found in more popular fighters which also different combo and super move systems.

I'm also considering a slight tactical departure from the typical fighter, basing movements on a half-grid kind of range system, removing fireballs or limiting them to "EX/Super only" status, and changing jump/duck maneuvers so they only take place while executing a punch or kick - thus allowing each jumping move to associate with a unique jumping distance/range, instead of a more static one. But that's only for coding convenience - it may not work out that way.

More details in a bit.
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« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2010, 09:26:18 PM »

 Tiger Back.

About the only part I'm thinking of coinciding with the above parts, besides the music maybe, is the potential of using your J-Powers for fireball/super moves. Okay, so here's the variables:

5-BUTTON:

-Parry
-Dodge Sway/Roll
-Crazy Taunting
-Power Strike
-Air Combo Launcher
-Power Charge
-Backfire Attack (think "Cross Counter")

SUPER/COMBO SYSTEMS:

-Ultimate (Marvel-level or KoF Leader move) Attack
-Cancel Combos (EX-Specials x 4 levels)
-Custom Combos
-Rage Gauge/Boost Mode
-Chain Combos/Danger Attack
-Buriki Rave (combinations of Buriki One and Deadly Rave-inspired timed-tap inputs; somewhat akin to SoulCalibur Gambits in setup)
-Knockout Blow (unblockable "super" technical punch/kick - like a MvC2 snapback that hits for 95-99% damage - you can survive it, IF it's the only thing that hits you!)

FIGHTING STYLES:

-Karate (Ryu/Ken/Ryo/Robert)
-Karate 2 (Yuri/Sakura style)
-Hakkyo-Kuseiken (Geese/Terry/Rock)
-"Yaganagi" (Kyo/Iori/Shingo/Saishu)
-Slammaster (Tizoc/Maxima/TK-King)
-Tae Kwon Do (Ash/Kim/Guile/Charlie/Remy)
-Boxing (Dudley/Vanessa)
-Muay Thai (Joe/Adon/Bruce)
-Aikido (Cammy/Juni/Juli/Mary)
-Jeet Koon Do (Dozens of Bruce Lee clones)
-Judo (K'/Kula/Andy/Paul)
-Mystic (Rose/Athena/Chizuru/Luise)
-Ninjitsu (Ibuki/Mai/Eiji/Leona/Heidern)
-Ikari (Alex/Ralf/Clark)
-Lucha (Ramon/Rainbow Mika/El Stingray/El Fuente)
-Crusher (E.Honda/M.Bison/Blanka)
-Emperor (Sagat/Krauser/Rugal)

TOURNAMENTS:

-Training/First level

-Classic SF
-Time Attack SF (3/5 rounds, 20 seconds each)
-Dramatic Battle
-World Heroes

-Tekken Force/GG Boost
-Tag Battle
-Countdown Mode
-MK Endurance

-King of Fighters/Team Attack
-SFA3-style Survival
-Reverse Dramatic Battle
-Karate Champ/First Blast (vs. 30)

-Boss Rush (vs. all leaders)
-Champion Bout (champ character, tremendous advantage (like periodically recovering life or super bars, for instance), two ENTIRELY COMPLETE fighting styles (think Gen or semi-Shang Tsung, here), one additional deadly or nigh-inescapable super move; 30 seconds per round with no time-over wins)

Apart from the last two, you'll take on 3 characters/teams and a "boss" to win or place in that tournament. If you lose, the game will progress anyways, and you won't be able to redo the challenge.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2010, 04:07:06 PM by baconman » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2010, 09:45:13 PM »

Add a "silly" fighting style (Dan)
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« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2010, 03:00:39 PM »

so i would imagine doing something like: riding a motorcycle, that eventually crashed into a dance club where i must dance my way through, then fighting thugs, then working at a farm?
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« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2010, 08:16:32 PM »

Add a "silly" fighting style (Dan)

Hmm... I was thinking of making "random quote balloons" part of the action, too... so what if I made that one of the 5th-button powers as well? This way, a different set of extra ground/air/crouch-taunts could be added to every fighting style, and the only "disadvantage" would be that it overshadows other types, and then associating it with random quotes? Smiley

Very inspiring, that! I was also wondering how to factor in more "wannabe" style characters too, like the kind Sakura and Shingo fit into... this could work with that, too, and basically apply to any fighting style! Maybe even having that style require some kind of "ammo" to use specials, only chargable with said "crazy taunting." (Or not... it kinda serves it's own purpose anyways.)
__________

so i would imagine doing something like: riding a motorcycle, that eventually crashed into a dance club where i must dance my way through, then fighting thugs, then working at a farm?

Perhaps so! For the time being, I'm opting to go with a more decisive kind of approach, and keeping the gameplay elements decisively seperate, and letting you choose what you go with. So far, it's about a 30-day system that allows 3 "levels" per "day." Each "day" begins with you choosing 3 challenges from the 6 available to do (90 potential levels in total). So you play the game out in 3-section parts, possibly with a "bonus minigame" afterwards, and you get 30 attempts to do as well as you can. Then, that character becomes NPC'ed, based on your results. I may knock it down to 7 days/21 levels, or up to 52 "weekends"/156 levels, or maybe even a choice between them all instead.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2010, 11:00:34 PM by baconman » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2010, 09:11:12 PM »

Originally, the concepts of the racing and space-shooter parts of the game were intended to be more definitively seperate, and more arcade-like in their execution. But for the sake of simplicity and solidarity, I've revised it to be more similar to the platforming game, and coincide with it more. I'm also considering merging them both into one element, but for now, here's the Race and Chase part...

OBJECTIVES:

-Reach the end of the stage/laps first.
-Collect the most coins/treasure.
-Score the most kills.
-Score the greatest kill-combo.
-Perform the best (longest x highest) jump. (Or best point-to-point flying/swimming distance within any 5 seconds, in flying/swimming stages.)
-Defeat all others (battle race).
-Defeat a target "boss" before others do.

COURSES:

-One course of 16 "rooms" start to finish (or looped for shooters).
-Lapped course of 4, 5 or 8 "rooms" (4 laps x4, 3 laps x5, or 2 laps x8 - shooters will have infinite "loops")
-Back-and-forth course of 4, 5, or 8 rooms.

However, unlike the platform-based game, race-oriented level layouts will have 2 or 3 "layers" to change between, in a way that's similar to Excitebike, to open up more passing and branching route-selection potential. It may also have auto-scrolling and auto-running involved, with a greater focus on manuevering.  The stage will open on a "setting up" screen, which will either pair you with a specific, common-with-opponents "animal buddy," or will allow you a selection between 2 of them, for mixed competitions. You can also elect to take on this game on foot, if you'd rather.
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« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2010, 09:32:49 PM »

Ultimately, I would like the adventure aspect of the game to combine the fun, explorative and secret-passage elements of Zelda with the simplicity and action-focus of Gauntlet. Originally, the J-POWERS referenced in the Platforming section above originated in design here (the "Torch Magic" was to add a tactical Bomberman-like element to the game as well), so they will obviously be a staple feature here. Ideally, I would like to do this part in an 8-directional, full-map based enviroment like Zelda/Gauntlet, but given the current perspective, it may become more like Zelda II with more platforming influence, instead.

I was going to have a looping map, in every direction, and then have two procedrually developed, looping "barriers," resulting in a country that then varies in it's shape and layout, yet still retains the same number of screens overall, then filling in some smaller "barriers" along with that, making it a little more mazelike, but navigable. Then populating each area of it with a set of dungeons, 3 sets of which with unique treasures that would make one-another easier and more accessible, and then all of them being used together to complete the last section. Another thing I once considered was going with MegaMan robot masters, and using "MM Soccer" sprites for this element, but the rest of the action (especially the fighting!) is way ahead of the limited spriting associated with them. So that's not working...

This shift in dynamics leads me to now consider making this part more like an expansion to the platforming game, as well as more Spelunky-like and "classic" Castlevania influence in level layouts, but focused more on puzzle-solving and discovering hidden passages and exits, often guarded in at least 2 directions by bosses (or at least "senior critters" and/or NPC'ed characters). This may also use the layering system noted in the Race and Chase post right above this, to add some explorative depth to the mix.

Finally, I was also at one time considering using this as the main "hub," with which to access the other game styles from, but that would also lead to a major imbalance in the gaming experience; as other parts would be optional still, but this would be essential. A lack of skill or ability in this department would then hinder your character in other regions of development. So, probably not the best idea there, either.

Basically here, I know what I want to achieve, and I know what I have to work with... but I still have yet to find the fine-tuning balance necessary to achieve the combination thereof. Protip: It's probably not becoming a Metroidvania, since the overall project is made to go in spurts. Wink I'd like to focus this on the "dungeon" aspect if I must pick between elements, and yet still differenciate it from the platformer/racing experience better. Like doing sets of 5 Gauntlet levels, but with more Zelda-like "room" influence.

Vertically offset "columns" of rooms, with upper and lower connecting doors between them, perhaps? So this way, even though side-scrolling; you still have four potential doorways and different rooms to explore that way? Maybe a bit like original "Mario Bros." meets Castlevania in room design? With the layering approach mentioned before... Tired Grr... it's kinda close, but what's missing?!
« Last Edit: May 17, 2010, 02:37:27 PM by baconman » Logged

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« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2010, 11:29:29 PM »

I guess this leaves two other things to really ponder on - the bonus minigames (of many varieties, including ones from fighters, ones from Zelda games, ones from DKC and Yoshi's Island, and typical (atypical) takes on things like Slot Machines... and the epic finale.

I kinda like what newer NeoGeo games did with it's multiple/variable boss approaches, and I'd like a "final destiny" kind of element to end the playable character phase, along with a few different ending chapters that go with it, but that's all still a bit up in the air. Maybe a really epic, difficult kind of encounter, followed (if successful) with a ultimately-fun "reward" kind of stage (but on explicit do-or-die terms... like the Extra/One More Extra Stages on DDR, sorta).

Then, you'll get one of three "types" of endings, based on the success rates of these stages. So your build-up determines which "last day" you get, and the ending you get (pretty much the whole "plot summary" for your character) then varies with your results. This also determines the epicness of their role as NPC's - for instance, if you're good enough to beat the overpowered fighter champ, then clearly your reflexes and habits will then make your character a formidable future-champ, right?
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« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2010, 02:49:10 PM »

Making some headway on recoloring sprites, but I'm still unsure about aspect ratios involved in creating the critters, and the general pacing.

Most of the humanistic character-sprites and tiles are 48x48 (and most of the action should be smooth, but still ultimately half-tile based). A screen resolution of 720x480 px would give me screens of 15x10 tiles... definitively more horizontal, to allow for more anticipation, particularly in the Race'n'Chase scenes... but I still don't think 15 tiles is enough!? (To put it in perspective, most NES games run 16x15 tiles per screen.) Too much resolution (like 200%ing that?) could result in unnecessary choppiness, or it bleeding out of some monitors/pages, or result in teeny-tiny sprites (which I don't worry about, so much as all the wide open space that sort of thing would result in).

Currently, rather than simply going with screen-pasting, I think I'm going to construct screens by mashing two designed ones together, the spritey-elements overriding other ones, and then a seed-driven set of modifiers to adjust the result. Different levels will result in different screening layouts, usually about 20 or 30 screens apiece (debating). I'm also coinsidering making "these screens" actually twice as big as the game window (30x20 tile designs).

20-screen layouts:

10 wide, 2 high
7 wide, 3 high
5 wide, 4 high
4 wide, 5 high
3 wide, 7 high
2 wide, 10 high
(debatable: 1x20s or 20x1s)

30-screen layouts:

15 wide, 2 high
10 wide, 3 high
8 wide, 4 high
6 wide, 5 high
5 wide, 6 high
4 wide, 8 high
3 wide, 10 high
2 wide, 15 high
(1x30 or 30x1, possibly)

So...  Concerned

1. Considering the roles of the critters (page 1), about how big do you think they should be in comparison with the player characters?

2. Do you think a 15-tile-wide perspective is too narrow for a very action-oriented game, going for "about a MegaMan X level of pacing" to it? How many tiles of visual anticipation do you think a game like that should have?

3. Taking into consideration that gameplay is generally in threefold spurts, about how much time do you think you would enjoy playing solid, and how many screens do you think should work with that? (For reference, MegaMan levels/endless mode spurts are usually about 30, and IIRC, Spelunky is about 16, hence the range I'm considering.

4. Are there any problems you dev's might anticipate with the "combine two half-screens" approach that could not be overcome with the player's various capabilities? (Bear in mind, they will never "have none of them," and there's a few possible workarounds in the mix, too.)
« Last Edit: May 26, 2010, 09:37:09 AM by baconman » Logged

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« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2010, 09:35:07 AM »

More specifics on musical design scheme:

So most of the melodies in the game will be comprised by assigning a note to each value of a string, trimming the excess notes, and factoring in signature sounds (fun things to play)... given the variables-upon-variables approach, I figure this part doesn't need to be all too fancy... so for now, I have a few of the melodic sequences (that you're free to test on Blergo Beats, for now; they can combine and start anywhere on the scale, btw.

1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.
1.2.2.2.1.2.2.2.
1.1.1.1.2.2.3.3.
2.2.2.2.3.3.3.3.
1.1.2.2.3.3.4.4.
1.2.3.4.1.2.3.4.
4.3.2.3.2.1.2.3.
4.3.4.3.4.3.4.3.
2.3.4.3.2.3.4.3.
2.1.3.1.4.1.3.1.
4.4.2.2.3.3.2.2.
1.1.2.3.2.2.3.4.
2.1.2.3.4.2.3.4.
4.2.3.1.4.2.3.1.
(KB/Vox only, for now)
1.2.3.5.2.3.4.6.
2.2.3.3.4.4.5.6.
1.1.2.4.2.2.3.5.
1.2.3.4.3.4.5.6.
1.3.2.4.3.5.4.6.
1.6.5.4.3.4.5.6.
2.3.4.5.6.1.2.3.

Then the filtering process... basically roll a 6-sider, and remove that many notes in some consistent pattern throughout the first 3 measures; and roll it again for the fourth ones. Actually, I think each tune should do this twice, once for Lead/Vocals (same trimming pattern AND complimentary notes, for the most part), once for Rhythm/Bass/Drums (same trimming pattern, but different notes), with KB/DJ falling with one or the other... probably the lead, but it could go either way. Or having each "roll twice" and then alternate between the two trimming patterns, in more complex or faster-paced songs.

(Some examples of "3-trimming"):
xxxx x...
xx.x .xx.
x.x. xxx.
xxxx .x..
xxx. x.x.
xxxx ..x.
xx.x .x.x
x.xx .xx.

Now, for the fun moves; which will usually round out the bridges and the fourth measures/fillers somewhat, but occasionally may wind an entire verse together... (let me know if I'm missing any you like!)

GUITAR TRICKS:
The Boston Hammer (2321) in 1/24ths where appropriate, probably once per phrase or so...
Electric Slide 2-wide (2121212121212...)
Electric Slide 3-wide (3212321232123...)
Quick Slide (1234) or (4321)
Rhythmic Chords (plays a single chord per phrase, in trimmed musical timing)
Progressive Hammer Chords ([123].123.[123]... think Sultans of Swing, here)
Heavy Riffing (1/24 riffs, ala Painkiller's climax or much of Misirlou)
Tap-Note Insanity (plays 2x-compressed sets of tap-only notes)

(so far, Bass does NOT utilize open strums, fyi)

DRUM TRICKS:
Polyrhythm (111122334...)
Lead Food (more solid quarters w/ kicks)
Snare/Hi-Hat rolls (self-explanatory)
More Cowbell!! (more 3s factored in, basically)
Rhythmic Kicks (like Rhythmic Chords, but with the kick drum)
Drumwalking (12132434...)

KEYBOARD/DJ TRICKS:
Keywalking (21324354...)
Flutters (212121212121...)
Slides (4321)/(1234)
Progressive Chords (just like Guitar's)
Rhythmic Chords (just like Guitar's)
Rhythmic Scratching
Scratching Rolls
Chaotic Melody (akin to Tap-Note Insanity, but with KB, it's obvious what's up)

VOCALIST TRICKS:
Hold that note! (longer/more dramatic sustains)
Rap Speak (quick/broken speech)
Low Tide (do.re.do.re...)
High Tide (do.re.mi.re...)
Cheering (More vitrual tambourine/clapping action)
More Harmonies
*Higher Pitch (+2)
*Lower Pitch (-2)

*if you know of any better singer tricks, please suggest...

STEP DANCE TRICKS:
Jump Sequences (beats/notes)
Crossovers and Twists
Pivot-steps
Spins
Hold + Tapping sequences (beats/notes)
ZigZag runs
7-step spurt patterns
Double-runs (1212 3434 2323...)

MOTION DANCE TRICKS:
Opposite Pairs
Synchronized 180s
Waves
360 wheels
Slow Rolls
Fast Rolls


Feedback/Suggestions? (Including the posts above?)
« Last Edit: May 26, 2010, 09:44:33 AM by baconman » Logged

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« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2010, 12:35:36 PM »

does this help you
http://zarat.us/olc
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baconman
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« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2010, 03:09:25 PM »

does this help you
http://zarat.us/olc

OmniLudiCron?! Smiley

OMFG, I REMEMBER THAT! I messed with it awhile about a year and a half ago... good times! I could build a couple of one-screeners, mostly by drag-and-drop, but is there a way to make room-to-room action or scrolling with it? (I have NO IDEA how I'd pull off the fighter aspect, without importing sprites and adjusting controls, however.) Or competing racers?

Heck, I might play around with it, just for kicks/inspiration. It's been a long time! As if I don't have enough excuse for procrastinating. I think what I'm going for here is similar in concept, but with some more PGC influence and variable critter influence (helpers/enemies). Even the musical aspect of the project could be concievable, with proper pacing/spawning and maybe some unique use of the paddle+sword, maybe. 8x8 tiles (not counting screencaps) is pretty limiting, though.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2010, 03:49:29 PM by baconman » Logged

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