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[Benza]

So what do you guys think? Honestly while the games don't look great (Ok they look shit) the technology is fucking amazing.
I think if augmented with actual controller input this thing could be insane. Hell just watching my girlfriend play little big planet and she strains up and down when on the spring boards trying in vain to will her little sackboy that extra inch higher, then playing the same segment myself I had to consciously stop myself from doing the same. Hell I remember watching my parents friends little kids play street fighter on the snes back in the day and the amount they jumped around was probably better exercise then most of the workout games around today.
It's such a natural progression that it's kind of disappointing that it was so under utilized.

And that's just for playing games. I'm sure someone will concot a way to hook it up to your pc and record the data from it giving you a cheap mo-cap substitue wich for someone who's currently trying to learn aniamtion in 3D is just fucking mind blowing.

[gunmaggot]

So what do you guys think? Honestly while the games don't look great (Ok they look shit) the technology is fucking amazing.
I think if augmented with actual controller input this thing could be insane. Hell just watching my girlfriend play little big planet and she strains up and down when on the spring boards trying in vain to will her little sackboy that extra inch higher, then playing the same segment myself I had to consciously stop myself from doing the same. Hell I remember watching my parents friends little kids play street fighter on the snes back in the day and the amount they jumped around was probably better exercise then most of the workout games around today.
It's such a natural progression that it's kind of disappointing that it was so under utilized.

This is the weirdest stuff to bring up in a Kinect thread - the device is the least suited to it of the three waggle solutions offered so far.  'With actual controller input ...'?  That's just not what the hardware is about - the Wii and Move are the ones doing that stuff.  In NSMB you can literally do what your gf was trying to do in LBP.

And that's just for playing games. I'm sure someone will concot a way to hook it up to your pc and record the data from it giving you a cheap mo-cap substitue wich for someone who's currently trying to learn aniamtion in 3D is just fucking mind blowing.

I never thought about this - this is really awesome.

[Contrary]

Playstation Move is going to be waaay better.

Source: I own two Playstations 3s and no Xboxes. Draw conclusions.

[Benza]

This is the weirdest stuff to bring up in a Kinect thread - the device is the least suited to it of the three waggle solutions offered so far.  'With actual controller input ...'?  That's just not what the hardware is about - the Wii and Move are the ones doing that stuff.  In NSMB you can literally do what your gf was trying to do in LBP.

I remember reading when they first started showing natal that it was being designed to be able to work in tandem with a regular controller.
The problem I have with this stuff in say Mario Galaxy or Move, is firstly that the controllers kind of suck. Secondly they really only track your hand movements and then at best try and interpret full body movements from that. Playing little big planet my girlfriend wasn't moving her hands up and down with the jump, she was physically moving her entire body.

Another example that couldn't really be recreated by the Wii (possibly by the move as I've seen it interpreting basic mo-cap stuff from the information of two wands, but that still removes the traditional controller aspect)

Imagine playing a FPS, for the purpose of this argument lets say Halo, with your controller in hand just like you normally would, someone fires a rocket at you, you instinctively jerk your head away from the rocket, except instead of doing nothing, this makes your character perform a quick evasive sidestep in the direction you instinctively jerked.

Kinect really could provide a kind of instinctual control of your character that nothing I've seen so far really could. I sure haven't played a Wii game that conveys the whole instinctive way you move into actual game play, and admittedly I haven't played the Move like most people, but it seems to be just a higher fidelity wii-mote.

Source: I own two Playstations 3s and no Xboxes. Draw conclusions.

You're a Fanboy? If my stuff is coming off as fanboy ranting I do apologize, I own all three consoles and I know they all have there place (although admittedly my Wii doesn't get much use) but the tech I'm seeing from Kinect is just blowing me away, and then utterly disappointing me to see it used for shitty driving games by people with no imagination.

[Eric McQuiggan]

For certain applications yes, because the controllers have buttons, and rotational knowledge of your hands.

But if the application is designed for full body control, then Kinect will be better, by default.


You can use it like a cheap Mocap device, but the problem is most of the good stuff comes from the software, which I doubt Microsoft will give away willingly. At most you might be able to get the 2 cameras' data, and try to run some algorithms on that, but trust me, it ain't easy.

[Benza]

You can use it like a cheap Mocap device, but the problem is most of the good stuff comes from the software, which I doubt Microsoft will give away willingly. At most you might be able to get the 2 cameras' data, and try to run some algorithms on that, but trust me, it ain't easy.

Hmm good point, is the software actually in the unit though or will it require updates to the x-box?
Either way if they want games developed for it for the x-box live indie games then they're going to have to release the software.

[gunmaggot]

Another example that couldn't really be recreated by the Wii (possibly by the move as I've seen it interpreting basic mo-cap stuff from the information of two wands, but that still removes the traditional controller aspect)

Imagine playing a FPS, for the purpose of this argument lets say Halo, with your controller in hand just like you normally would, someone fires a rocket at you, you instinctively jerk your head away from the rocket, except instead of doing nothing, this makes your character perform a quick evasive sidestep in the direction you instinctively jerked.

Kinect really could provide a kind of instinctual control of your character that nothing I've seen so far really could.

But that sounds utterly uninteresting, and also annoying - I don't want to use my head to sidestep.  This is the same kind of dumb stuff that 'gestural' motions on the wii were criticised for - like making throwing motgions with the nunchuk to toss grenades (blech).  You give a shooter scenario ... but Move and Wii are both much better-suited to all the key elements of shooter games.  You can actually, you know, point at shit.  
'Yeah, but can they register head jerks???' WHO CARES?????????? Head jerks?  wtf

I sure haven't played a Wii game that conveys the whole instinctive way you move into actual game play, and admittedly I haven't played the Move like most people, but it seems to be just a higher fidelity wii-mote.

The Move could easily do that - it's much better suited for the stuff you're talking about than Kinect, at least until Kinect comes up with a decent wiimote clone.

[Eric McQuiggan]

Hmm good point, is the software actually in the unit though or will it require updates to the x-box?
Either way if they want games developed for it for the x-box live indie games then they're going to have to release the software.

All the processing is done Xbox side, to keep costs down, but makes it a bit of a system hog.

@gunmaggot Why do you hate Kinect so much? 

[Benza]

All the processing is done Xbox side, to keep costs down, but makes it a bit of a system hog.

Ah ok, makes sense, still if they want people using XNA to be able to utilise the kniect they're going to have to release the software for it.

But that sounds utterly uninteresting, and also annoying - I don't want to use my head to sidestep.  This is the same kind of dumb stuff that 'gestural' motions on the wii were criticised for - like making throwing motgions with the nunchuk to toss grenades (blech).  You give a shooter scenario ... but Move and Wii are both much better-suited to all the key elements of shooter games.  You can actually, you know, point at shit.  
'Yeah, but can they register head jerks' WHO CARES? Head jerks?  wtf

Missing the forest for the trees there buddy.


My point is most people make these kind of instinctive movements while playing games anyway, the kinect gives you the ability to track these movements and translate them into the actual gameplay moreso then the wii or the move.

[gunmaggot]

All the processing is done Xbox side, to keep costs down, but makes it a bit of a system hog.

Ah ok, makes sense, still if they want people using XNA to be able to utilise the kniect they're going to have to release the software for it.

But that sounds utterly uninteresting, and also annoying - I don't want to use my head to sidestep.  This is the same kind of dumb stuff that 'gestural' motions on the wii were criticised for - like making throwing motgions with the nunchuk to toss grenades (blech).  You give a shooter scenario ... but Move and Wii are both much better-suited to all the key elements of shooter games.  You can actually, you know, point at shit.  
'Yeah, but can they register head jerks' WHO CARES? Head jerks?  wtf

Missing the forest for the trees there buddy.


My point is most people make these kind of instinctive movements while playing games anyway, the kinect gives you the ability to track these movements and translate them into the actual gameplay moreso then the wii or the move.

When it gets a suitable controller, you can bring up stuff like shooters.  Until it does, you are going to be playing dancing games and jogging on the spot.  All your 'ideas' look like Move specialties to me (Move is more than capable of registering head jerks), and it's just strange that you seem to have attached yourself to Kinect.

@Eric:  Kinect sucks.  That's why.

[Benza]

Ok, so ignoring Gunmaggot for being a sony fanboy then.

[gunmaggot]

Oh this is just embarrassing.

[Trevor Dunbar]

I'm just terribly dissipated dispensed disappointed we didn't see a new banjo-kazooie or Kameo game using this thing. I also hate the name with some fierce-kind of passion.

They have no killer-app for the thing, I think I'd play with Skittles for like 12 minutes and get bored. Same thing with the other launch "games".

Also having Kinect SPORTS as one of the launch titles is just hairdressing embarressing. I mean, really? It's not like Wii SPORTS at all is it? Oh, it isn't?

[Benza]

I'm just terribly dissipated dispensed disappointed we didn't see a new banjo-kazooie or Kameo game using this thing. I also hate the name with some fierce-kind of passion.

They have no killer-app for the thing, I think I'd play with Skittles for like 12 minutes and get bored. Same thing with the other launch "games".

Also having Kinect SPORTS as one of the launch titles is just hairdressing embarressing. I mean, really? It's not like Wii SPORTS at all is it? Oh, it isn't?

Yeah the line up for it was pretty bad. Honestly the coolest looking software on show for it was how to navigate the dashboard with it wich honestly is just pathetic.

That said I still think it's a fantastic piece of tech that could do some great things.

[lansing]

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