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Morroque
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« on: August 13, 2010, 07:23:41 PM » |
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Like most, I am an overly ambitious sort; so it would come as no surprise that my first game I stand a chance at fully completing is one of my smallest. A while back, my friends got interested in Magic: The Gathering. After the initial nerd wore off, I found the game very fun. The mix of fantasy, chance, and strategy made for a very unique and immersive experience, which was shocking considering all that composed it were a few bits of cardboard. However, I soon gained a lot of criticism for the game. I loved it for the same rando-strategic appeal, but the random chance it always relied on made the game far too unreliable. I figured out many great strategies, but never once did I pull any of them off. Every time I played, I either got mana-flooded or mana-screwed. So much so, I became disenchanted with it entirely. To my misfortune, my friends did not. For two years straight, it was Magic, Magic, Magic. I grew so utterly bored that one night I sprung into my gears to make some other game we could play. And such was the crucible where Sleights was born. This is not a video game, but a tabletop game. However, the problem with tabletop games is if you live in Canada, you cannot play with your friend in New Zealand without shelling out more than a thousand dollars. With this necessity, I had to port my first completed game from one system (52 card playing deck) to another (computer).  Control the game entirely with your mouse. On the title screen here, if you watch the opening demo you can get a brief idea how the game works.  If you're still not sure, give the ingame manual a read. You'll find out all you need to know. This computer port only uses the basic ruleset, not yet with the expanded modifiers of the tabletop version, but all the essentials are there. Afterwards, check out the practice mode to see how the interface works.  Here is an example of me playing against the computer. Already, we both find ourselves in a mess.  We clash, and it gets down to two-on-one with the advantage to me, but he suddenly summons another mage to the field using a rare card. Cheeky!  I position myself strategically. If I play my cards right, I should be able to get all three of them cornered.  I almost make it, taking out two. Sadly, I miscalculate my last move and he strikes me dead. http://sleights.revasser.net/ (WIP) Full Tabletop Rulebook (draft v2.00) (1.37 MB) (PDF) Port for Windows XP (updated to v0.875) (Game Maker 6.1) (Native) Full Development LogThis is currently v0.8. By v0.9, I hope to have online multiplayer working. However, I do not have sufficient experience in that area, so if someone knows of any comprehensive tutorials for online play in game maker, do link me up. The computer AI is mostly functional and thinks efficiently, but it is still unable to use Queens, Wildcards, and Jacks, as in when and where to play them. If anyone can recommend an algorithm to use, I'd be most grateful. My own inspiration hasn't struck me there yet. I'm hoping for some criticism in helping to get the game's essential form more balanced. During these summer months, I have not been able to play the person-vs-person form as much as I've liked, so there are still some mysteries remaining in the gameplay. I'll take any recommendations on that. Currently, I suspect that it would be unfair to play royal cards on the first turn. (Having the Queen of Spades in your hand at the start of the game can net you a sure-fire win.) Sadly, it is too late in development to apply these changes to the ported version, but I can always update the tabletop rulebook in confidence. I wish I could make a better first impression on you TIGsorts, but this is all I have. Since it is a port, it is far inferior to the original form. The tabletop version is much more fun and has the added bonus of being customizable (see website). If you have anyone you can play with in person, I do recommend you give it a shot.
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« Last Edit: December 20, 2010, 11:56:40 PM by MW »
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General
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« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2010, 04:21:47 AM » |
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Hi!
I only heard about Magic: The Gathering and didn't play it. I downloaded your game and found it quite interesting. Reading about game rules I thought, what if not only the suit of the card determines the attack pattern, but its value determines the attack distance?
Possible bug: Surrender button doesn't work during computer's turn.
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Morroque
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« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2010, 09:05:12 AM » |
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Reading about game rules I thought, what if not only the suit of the card determines the attack pattern, but its value determines the attack distance? In the sake of fairness, the attack distance should remain the same at all times. If the value directly had a reliant effect on the attacking ability, the game would instantly turn from a strategy game into a gambling game. This where Magic fell short. In order to attack, you required an x amount of mana cards. So if you drew no mana cards at all, you couldn't defend yourself. Similarly if all you had were mana cards, you still couldn't defend yourself. However, the blank values are not without their purpose. In this way, they are left as room for expansion. Currently, only jacks, queens, kings, aces, and twos have effects, but groups of players can come up with new values and assign them to the remaining cards. Wildcard aces also then become able to change both their suit and their value. This way, the tabletop version is fully customizable. Examples of such new effects would be - Insanity: Turn the entire game board 90 degrees, changing the position where 2 cards work.
- Teleport: Take any mage and relocate within casting distance. Skip the damage phase if this effect is used.
- Zombie Magic: This card becomes the card on the top of the discard pile.
- Trickshot: Cast the sleight backwards.
- Bad Advice: Rotate all of your opponent's mages in any desired direction. Your opponent does the same for your own mages. Skip the damage phase if this effect is used.
- Summonomancy: Put a new ghost within casting distance. If friendly fire is valid, skip the damage phase if this effect is used.
The only catch is that the new effects must be "attack neutral," as in they can only indirectly affect the attack pattern. (rulebook logic: All effects can only be resolved inbetween playing the card - sleight phase - and tallying the damage -- damage phase.) An example of a bad effect would be: - Mind Control: Cast from an opponent controlled mage. Friendly fire is valid for this turn.
- Bomb: Cast the sleight in call directions from one mage. Remove the mage from play at the discard phase.
- Earthquake: Disregard the suit. If the card is red (hearts, diamonds), all white squares become attack range. If the card is black (spades, clubs), all black squares become attack range. Friendly fire is valid for this turn.
These attacks are not attack-neutral. The result is that the game can get a lot shorter. Once, we used Mind Control in a game, and I was able to take out three mages in one shot during the second turn. The game essentially becomes chance-reliant, and all pretense of strategy flies out the window. I hope to get a dropbox set up for recommending new effects, so I can then get a database of recommended effects players can use in their games (after I make sure they're attack-neutral). Then tournaments can be set up where both players assign three of their own effects to three cards before each game.[/list]
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« Last Edit: August 14, 2010, 09:10:28 AM by MW »
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Netsu
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« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2010, 09:23:56 AM » |
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I'm a huge fun of tabletop, card, board and RPG games and this sound insanely fun in it's simplicity  (I only read the pdf) I invited some friends over for tonight, I guess we'll try out the tabletop version of your game. I very much like how it uses the classic decks, utilizing both figure and suit. Damn, I just realised I have no card decks in this apartment and it may be too late to go and buy one :C maybe we'll try the video game then.
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General
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« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2010, 09:36:23 AM » |
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Or you can try my CardWars, it enables hotseat game for up to 9 players 
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Netsu
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« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2010, 02:46:08 PM » |
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I played against the computer two times. I think it would be great if the game allowed hotseat play. Two things I'd change is the 'reload' button (the 'reload' word doesn't specify what it really does, maybe something like 'undo movement'?) and an addition of a double resolution mode. Other than that, an excellent play, and it works great under Wine  edit: Oh, now I see that 'practice' is kinda like a hotseat game. Pity I haven't figured it out when I had people over not an hour ago :D
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« Last Edit: August 14, 2010, 03:07:25 PM by Netsu »
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Morroque
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« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2010, 06:28:22 PM » |
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All right. To save on confusion, I'll make a "hotseat" button in the multiplayer menu that'll reroute to a slightly modified practice mode. double resolution mode. I know this can be done (have seen Spelunky do it), but I can't seem to figure this out myself. Normally resizing the window blurs it. Is there some DLL I need to get it to render by nearest neighbour?
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Netsu
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« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2010, 07:34:28 PM » |
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Today (well, the day ended 5,5 hours ago but we we're playing for 7 hours, so actually yesterday :D) I was playing some Twilight Imperium with my friends, and I managed to play two rounds of the tabletop version of Sleights in the meantime. It was nice, but one thing bothered me: it is generally safe to put 3 rows of space between your wizards and the enemy, otherwise he can advance by one row and smash you (every suit has a range of 2 in one direction or another). And when we were playing often no one wanted to move closer to the enemy, we just manoeuvred around but keeping the 3 spaces between us. I think more cards that can mess with the positioning like the queen does would be nice. Maybe a card that moves one mage on the field by one space before applying damage?
ps: About the doubleres, I know close to nothing about Game Maker, but maybe you can set the window size manually? Then you could set the windows size to precisely twice the normal display size, and the content shouldn't blur.
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« Last Edit: August 15, 2010, 07:37:55 PM by Netsu »
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Netsu
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« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2010, 12:03:01 PM » |
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Played a couple of games today (the tabletop version) with the following modifications: - instead of having a suit of your choice, aces can move one of your mages by one field before applying damage - when deploying your mages you can place them both in the first and in the second row - when playing a three, before applying damage, you can shuffle your whole hand into the deck, and draw an equal number of cards - we have taken tens and nines out of the deck I think it was much better this way. The moving aces made the game much more dynamic, instead of just standing in a safe distance from the enemy you could suddenly attack from far away, but you had to put your mage far to the front, making him vulnerable to enemy attacks. Placing mages in both first rows shortens the boring stage of getting to the enemy, which was always taking a couple of first turns. Being able to change your whole hand made the game less chance-reliant, because you don't have to be stuck with a hand full of crap  Taking tens and nines out also decreased the chance of being unable to draw any good cards.
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Morroque
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« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2010, 02:33:49 PM » |
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Very interesting, Netsu. Laying claim to two rows instead of one should be able to solve the Queen of Spades problem too. Due to multiplayer communication, I won't be able to give that in the Windows port, but I'll definitely add that to the tabletop rulebook.
Since the Windows version is so limited, I'm going to modify it so that Aces can become true wildcards, also becoming Twos, Jacks, Queens, or Kings. Hopefully this will make the PC version much more versatile. Granted, I don't think this should carry over in the tabletop version, since that will make the Joker's function useless. (Unless, of course, people really like it that way). The downside is, the AI will have no idea how to use it and unless there will be some sort of magic "convert everything into GML" tool to pop up, it's too fragile to touch right now.
Once that is done, I'll do a full rewrite of the rulebook. This time I'll include the expansion effects.
PS: That "Advance One" is a great effect.
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Netsu
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« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2010, 12:48:16 PM » |
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One more thing I came up with. Why not have two card decks, one for each player? This way one player won't be able to take away the best cards from the other, you can play defensively untill you draw your good cards, and (in the spirit of Magic) you loose when you can't draw your next card. Also each player can have his own discarded pile. I am also building my own Sleights set, I'll post photos when I'm finished 
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Dustin Smith
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« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2010, 09:06:42 PM » |
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I've been playing TCG's and wargames since I was eight so I definitely am interested in it. I'll download the PDF and send any suggestions your way shortly.
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Morroque
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« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2010, 10:10:28 PM » |
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Ah, Netsu. You're just in time. I've updated the Windows game to v0.85 and just completed a new draft of the rulebook. Update for Win XPUpdate for Win 7New Rulebook Draft, v1.99The update has Aces being full wildcards, and I even figured out the double resolution mode for you. The WIP website is a bit of a mess at the moment. Basically, this draft introduces the notion of keeping decks, and essentially turns every card into an effect card. Here are the example decks I've written so far: The “Necromancy” Deck: Themed around ghosts and evoking the dead.
Modifier: “Haunting.” When mages are normally removed from play during the damage phase, they are instead replaced by “ghosts”. Ghosts respond to effects done to mages and act like mages in all possible ways. They cannot be used during the movement or damage phases. If they cast a sleight, they are removed from play at the end of the turn. The conversion of all one's mages into ghosts satisfies a new defeat condition. This effect is canceled upon the playing of a Jack. When the effect is canceled, all active ghosts remain in play and function accordingly. Effect 1: “Summomancy.” The modifier “haunting” comes into effect. Place a new ghost within casting distance facing any direction. That ghost is put under your control. Effect 2: “Grave Dig.” Shuffle the discard pile and draw one card from it. If there are no cards in the discard pile, this card becomes a two. Effect 3: “Exorcise.” The modifier “haunting” comes into effect. If any ghosts are within casting distance, remove them from play.
The “Holy War” Deck. A deck best made for explosive and destructive gameplay.
Modifier: “Friendly Fire.” During the damage phase, sleight attacks affect both team mages indiscriminately. This effect cancels upon the playing of a queen. Effect 1: “Mage Magnet.” Friendly fire comes into effect. If there are any mages directly above, below, left, right, or directly on any diagonal line to the caster, move those mages one square closer to the caster. This effect cannot be skipped. Effect 2: “Assisted Martyrdom.” Friendly fire comes into effect. If either player were to have any number of mages targeted in the subsequent damage phase, that player puts twice of that number of mages onto their first row of the field, facing any desired direction, and under their control. Maximum of eight new mages per player. Effect 3: “Browbeat.” Offer your opponent the option to remove any single mage they control from the field. If they decline, place two new mages on your first row of the field, facing the same direction as the caster, each under your control.
The “Civilization” Deck. A deck themed around the keeping order at all costs.
Modifier: “Rule of Law.” As long as this modifier is in effect, no other modifiers can be used and all cards have no effects, aside from threes, twos, aces, tens, jacks, queens, kings, and jokers. The player that brought this modifier into play must remove one mage from the field at the end of their discard step, otherwise the modifier is canceled. This modifier is also canceled upon playing of a king. Effect 1: “Arrival of the Inquisition.” Place four new mages onto your end of the field, all facing the same – but chosen – direction. Afterwards, the modifier “Rule of Law” comes into effect. This effect cannot be skipped. Effect 2: “Absolutism.” All mages you control are rotated to face your end of the field. All mages your opponent controls are rotated to face their end of the field. Effect 3: “Thought Control.” Both players reveal their hands to eachother and discard all their cards not matching the suit of this card.
The “Media” Deck: A deck based around concepts in media studies.
Modifier: “Empire and Communications.” During the draw phases, draw three cards instead of one. This effect cancels upon playing a Queen. Effect 1: “Taking Advantage of Noam Chomsky.” Your opponent reveals their hand. If there is a joker in your hand, your opponent's hand, or in the discard pile, take those jokers and put them into your hand. Shuffle all other cards in your hand back into the deck and draw until you have five cards. If there are no jokers available, this card changes it's value to become a three. Effect 2: “National Brand Image.” Take the top twenty cards from the deck and put them in the discard pile. The discard pile then becomes the deck, and the deck becomes the discard pile. The modifier “Empire and Communications” comes into effect. Effect 3: “Corporate Monopoly.” Both players reveal their hands. Both players discard all their royal cards (Kings, Queens, Jacks). All remaining cards noted at this instance change their suits to equal the suit of this card.
The “Timulton” Deck: A deck based around a novel written by MW.
Modifier: “Flood.” By the time this modifier comes into play, some squares of the field will be marked as “water tiles.” Mages standing inside water tiles cannot have their attack patterns range to places outside water tiles, but mages standing outside water tiles can still range inside. This effect is canceled upon playing a Queen. When this effect is canceled, remove all water tiles from the field. Mark water tiles using pennies, dimes, or small counters. Effect 1: “After the Rain.” Both players reveal their hand. All cards noted at this instance have their values set to zero. This effect cannot be skipped. Effect 2: “Whirlpool.” Create 25 water tiles in a five-by-five square with the caster in the center (or less if near the edge of the field). The modifier “flood” comes into effect. If there are any mages directly above, below, left, right, or directly on any diagonal line to the caster, move those mages one square closer to the caster. This effect cannot be skipped. Effect 3: “Storm of Tears.” The modifier “flood” comes into effect. Place water tiles on the field in the same attack positions if every active mage on the field were to cast this sleight (equal to this suit). This effect cannot be skipped.
The “Generation A” Deck: A deck based around a novel written by Douglas Coupland.
Modifier: “Solon Time.” Before your turn ends, always discard one card, even if many were already discarded during the discard phase. At the start of each turn, if you remove one mage you control from the field, all remaining mages you control no longer account what way they are facing when casting, and act as if they are facing any desired direction at any desired time. This effect nullifies at each discard phase. This modifier cancels upon playing a Jack. Effect 1: “Coffinshark Presses the Button.” Discard your hand and draw two cards. Cancel all modifiers. Effect 2: “The Life and Death of the Channel Three News Team.” The game modifier “Solon Time” comes into play. If any mages are not to be removed from the field in the subsequent damage phase, both players reveal their hand. The value of all cards noted at this instance become equal to the value of this card. If any mages are to be removed from the field during the subsequent damage phase, both players reveal their hand. The value of all cards noted at this instance are restored to their original values. This effect cannot be skipped. Effect 3: “Craig comes to the Middle Ages.” Place X new mage(s) onto the field in any desired location, where X is equal to (the number of times this effect has been played before + 1). Your opponent decides what direction each new mage faces. Each new mage is put under your control. The game modifier “Solon Time” comes into play. X maxes out at 4. This is just the current draft. Not sacrosanct just yet. I've still yet to do major testing to see how others handle the idea of expanding onto the game themselves, as well as what the idea of infinite effects has on the game itself. Nonetheless, this still is the direction I wanted to head with this game. If it turns out this is too nuts, then I'll see how I can tone it down, or compensate otherwise. If you guys have any suggestions for this draft, I'm all ears.
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« Last Edit: August 31, 2010, 10:21:40 PM by MW »
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Dustin Smith
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« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2010, 10:13:57 PM » |
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The new rules PDF isn't working for me. =(
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Morroque
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« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2010, 10:17:40 PM » |
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Try again. The upload should be done by now.
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Netsu
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« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2010, 02:23:46 AM » |
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Ok, I read the new rulebook and I must say I rather dislike the new direction (apart from the two-row deployment  ). The thing I dislike the most is the amount of wildcards, I guess this is just my personal preference but I don't like playing with wildcards AT ALL. With 6 cards on your hand you almost always have all the suits available, with the addition of wildcards you can never assume that your enemy doesn't have any one particular suit in his hand. And when the wildcards can also mimic special effects... they just become overly powerful, and the game turns into a queen- and three-fest (two most powerful cards IMO). But maybe that's just me, and I'll keep playing the 'no-wildcards' variant of the game  Also, aces can become twos? That means one player can deploy up to 12 pieces if the stars align. That doesn't sound right. The 'decks' are an interesting addition, but rather as an optinal rule I think. Ok, I'm off for some Sleights with a friend 
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Morroque
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« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2010, 09:32:39 AM » |
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I'm still a little torn on the wildcards in this draft myself. In the v1 rulebook, Wildcards were a sort of countermeasure for "in case of getting king'd." Wildcards also changing their value to become a two was also a recommendation of one of the first people who played the game, and the Joker wildcard was just rare enough to be useful but not broken. The wildcards allowed for more flexibility in making strategies, and the players in the current games I've had no difficulties with the existence of wildcards so far. However, the increase of wildcards is something that remains to be tested in this draft. I am smelling them being too powerful in this revision. And of course, while these decks are something I want, I still need to test if they are practical or not. I'll probably get more testing in over the weekend. Edit: Just as a precaution, if it doesn't quite work out, I'll be defaulting to this: http://revasser.net/studio/ex/sleights/rulebook/sleights-v198a.pdf
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« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 11:26:21 AM by MW »
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Netsu
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« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2010, 01:37:24 PM » |
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I like the 198a very much  When Jokers are the only wildcards they are both rare enough not to affect the game much, and easily excluded, since jokers feel optional to me anyway (like in many traditional card games). And advance just sooo fits the aces in my eyes. What do you think of fan-made variant games? Because I've put down some rules for a two-deck variant, with no wildcards and two custom effects: - discard hand
put all cards from your hand into the discarded pile and then draw an equal number of cards, this effect can be skipped but you can only discard your whole hand or no cards at all - unstable swap
your enemy chooses the suit of this card and then you can swap two mages as per the 'soul swap' effect
The 'unstable swap' sure sounds a bit redundant, but imo the swapping effect is the best (as in 'most fun') there is. It provides a lot of tactical depth to the game, and I felt that more swapping equals more fun, but wanted to make it less powerful than the Queen (it could be attached to Tens).
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Netsu
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« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2010, 05:50:32 AM » |
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Unfortunately the windows game doesn't seem to work with the latest Wine, but I see you're updating the site much. I'm curious as to what you're gonna include in the rulebook 2.0, I'm still playing a modified v198 with my friends from time to time 
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