next »

[gimymblert]

That looks good

[Blambo]

Great observation. You got the proportions right, but it's a little skewed to the right.

It seems that you're simply eyeballing the proportions though; I suggest using construction lines to set up your proportions more systematically. In this case, marking the top and bottom of the figure (totally arbitrarily), then relating the height to different widths and lengths on the figure.

This video sort of illustrates this process. Don't be turned off by the fact that it's not a figure drawing; the same basic principals apply to any sort of drawing.

[ANtY]

this video is shit, you can't do this while drawing in pencil (if you're not using carbon paper) and you shouldn't do this on the computer. It's like tracing, the only difference is that it isn't tracing.

I hoped for a video where someone explains some clever techniques on how to notice those guidelines and draw them by yourself, not by overpainting. Now I'm disappointed

[nikki]

I dont think you should "draw something from artbook"
It's to easy to focus to much on the lines that are there already.

instead "draw something from your room"
a physical object you can see.

like that dress the woman in your drawing is wearing
I understand what kind of dress it is; it's like an archtypal cartoony 1800's dress.

But I don't think it actually looks like that.
the textile moves and has shadows, volumes and and takes in space in a way.
so learn to see those thngs for real and try to draw what you see as precise as you can.

[gimymblert]

I can't find good article about proportion drawing now, it's like they all vanish or that my tiredness these day is exploding my competance

[Blambo]

this video is shit, you can't do this while drawing in pencil (if you're not using carbon paper) and you shouldn't do this on the computer. It's like tracing, the only difference is that it isn't tracing.

I hoped for a video where someone explains some clever techniques on how to notice those guidelines and draw them by yourself, not by overpainting. Now I'm disappointed

Heheh, sorry. Didn't watch the video before posting it. I sort of just looked at the thumbnail, saw the construction lines, and copy/pasted it. But I still hold to the assertion that observational drawing is best done by actively comparing proportions and measurements. At Shard's level, this should be done through actually drawing lines to help with measurements, using a pen or pencil as a measuring stick.

I wanna make a thread or article or video for basic rendering and setup for observational art, but it seems too small a topic.

(I also fear seeming pretentious, although my posting advice here seems to be giving that impression.)

[rickardwestman]

Interesting thread.

I think you should draw more things from your head. And I also think you should start to render stuff. If it is a pencil drawing, then just shade it, if it is digital go all in on colours and everything. Go all in!

I suggest this because it gave me some really nice progress over a couple of years. And it is so much more fun to draw random things than to do repetative studies. I think you will pick up things either way. And having fun is probably the best way to keep you motivated.

A stick figure base could be something that early locks you into a mindset while creating an image. This might block you from exploring a pose and finding better shapes. Sometimes even a good looking shape can feel better than an anatomically correct shape.
If it looks good enough you can fool anybody 

So my advice would be to try challenege yourself into making really cool rendered stuff. This will hopefully give you some progress in many fields at the same time where you over time will pick up things about colours, lighting, forms, shapes, anatomy, perspective and all of that crap. 

Good luck and keep 

[TheShard1994]

@Rickardwestman:
Well that's what I've been doing mostly throughout this thread, but the main advice lately was to train observation.

@Nikki:
Hamish adviced me to draw things while looking at it upside down, and I think it's a good thing to start out with looking at drawings upside down. When drawing from life, everything's the right way up anyway, and that will be the next step: really observing from life. But not just observing objects, but like Hamish said "seeing the shapes in between them".

@Blambo:
But, when drawing guidelines, doesn't that make you eyeball proportions even more?

Also, I drew another drawing while looking at it upside down, a bit more complicated this time (left one is mine, if it isn't clear):

[Blambo]

You're only eyeballing if you're not supporting your proportions with actual measurements.

[gimymblert]

the current dilemma is ... how do you teach how to see and correct proportion...
The problem is that it's not bad but it's not correct. Actually it's true for any artist regardless of how train they are. BUT the main thing is to cross a threshold where it is negligible.

I remember back on really early drawing when I start talking about structure. The thing is you are not bad, but generally familiar figure get simplified (like human body) and upside down drawing correct that. However you still has not learn tool to correct proportion. I'm investigating the matter ... See you when I got something.

[TheShard1994]

the current dilemma is ... how do you teach how to see and correct proportion...

Isn't that when you mark, for example, the top of a head, the bottom, the cross for the nose/eye-positioning, marking how many eyes a head is in width, etc.?

[cirpons]

the current dilemma is ... how do you teach how to see and correct proportion...

Isn't that when you mark, for example, the top of a head, the bottom, the cross for the nose/eye-positioning, marking how many eyes a head is in width, etc.?

Yes, but that works for EVERYTHING, the base principle is to use the proportion of different lines in an object to model it on paper.

[TheShard1994]

So if I would want to practice that (to not simply "eyeball" proportions), I'd best do what I did before, observe like that, but draw it at a different scale than the original reference is, with the help of some guidelines?

[cirpons]

So if I would want to practice that (to not simply "eyeball" proportions), I'd best do what I did before, observe like that, but draw it at a different scale than the original reference is, with the help of some guidelines?

Yes, exactly, you might even consider drawing from life.

[TheShard1994]

Yes yes haha, all in time, I'm having enough trouble with observation as it is, sadly.

But if those last 2 drawings were good enough, I think it's time to move on to drawing from life indeed

[gimymblert]

The thing is you must try to compare aspect of the original, in terms of alignment, angles and ratio, then port these to your drawing. If possible by defining global shape first to details. Observing is comparing!

[TheShard1994]

So, like I did with this one? Gave the reference a grid of 2cmx2cm, and drew it 1.5 times bigger. Paid attention to scale, angles, shapes inbetween objects (between wing and body, etc.):

[happymonster]

Can you spot all the bits that are wrong? That might help you work on your observations skills. In case it helps, I can see quite a few differences..

[gimymblert]

Hou! the old grid :D I haven't seen it in a long time, almost forgot about it! Yes it's a good thing because we can reference difference by pointing a square. C5 for example is weird.

I would like to see how it apply to a human, I mean you have a strange drop of quality when it came to human while random object are much better defined in your drawing.

[clockwrk_routine]

if accuracy is your thing it always helps to flick your eyes back and forth between your drawing and subject

you can also rough your image in with fine lines extending off the page, that line up with parts of your subject.  Lines will intersect/parallel and build a relationship to one another as you view them, you can use them for getting an angle or measuring parts off one another.

'the best things happen in limited time' my teacher always says that.  a lot of times we narrow our approach to how we've always done things, in the course of learning, we ingrained these habits and limit our creativity in the long run.  When we give ourselves little time, our approach broadens, we're much more receptive to what's happening on the page, we might even begin to consider every mark in relation to everything else, or we try other approaches working in all areas for the purpose of communicating either the subject accurately or what you wish to communicate through the subject. 

I really suggest doing quicker sketches, 5-10 mins, then working your way up.  You may not like what you're doing, but it will help you improve quicker.  Something also to notice about sketches is how alive the lines make the image feel or how energetic it feels.  Compare your shorter sketches to longer ones, you might get what I'm talking about.  When you begin to notice this you can try working it in consciously through every aspect of the piece, composition, line, perspective, color all have to do with how an image feels.  Which maybe the most important aspect of artwork.