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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperArt (Moderator: JWK5)Art Advice needed
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TheShard1994
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« Reply #420 on: April 03, 2013, 06:58:07 AM »

I do see some spots are wrong, like the eye is too big, C5 got a bit messed up and I really just sketched out the "inner" part of the wings.

@Gimym TILBERT: I'll use a grid on a human figure next, let's see how that turns out Cheesy I have indeed noticed (and people in this thread have noted it before) that my humans come out really flat and weird-looking.. I really wonder what that's all about.

@Softchange: So, just do the observation exercise, but with limited time? Did it before and it looked like shit (few pages back in this thread, I believe), but I may try it again soon
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gimymblert
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« Reply #421 on: April 03, 2013, 09:42:50 AM »

It's back and forth, just because we advise you to try a new approach it does not mean that you should discard old practice, the new practice is just the new main focus.

As you get better you will be introduce to plenty practice, some which might sound bizarre and completely reverse previous saying. Drawing involve many skills, creative drawing involve even more.

I told you before, but what we see is concepts, what you draw is the concept of how you think things are, human figure flatten because it has the most familiarity. That's why it turns weird, the symbolic fight with the visual, you must first learn to see only visually (that's why we do upside drawing, to break familiarity and the eye travel habit by slowing it down to focus on details).

Later you will have to go back to symbolize the visual back Tongue but we are not there yet, to see what it might look like, just look at any Kinnas drawing painting.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2013, 09:48:15 AM by Gimym TILBERT » Logged

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« Reply #422 on: April 03, 2013, 09:47:29 AM »

As one of your many cyberteachers (don't you have school or something), I'll just say as good as the results from the grid are, it's sort of a waste of time. Measure using your eyes and the length of your pencil (the cliche artist thumb thing). Like, see how long a hand is and compare that length to other shapes in your drawing, maybe its half a hand or two hands, but it keeps your eyes trained on accurate distance and length, slowly honing your ability to naturally draw well proportioned things.

Drawing from life is good.
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TheShard1994
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« Reply #423 on: April 03, 2013, 10:13:43 AM »

Ha, I do have school, pretty busy lately too, but I'm not spending that much time on this Cheesy I only draw for like an hour, mostly in the late evening before bed, since I'm mostly at school or with friends and stuff. So in the very few hours I'm actually alone I do some drawing or music practice, since those are skills I really want to train.
Never like to spend time without a goal haha.

Ahh, I see, well I'm doing that grid drawing of the human body, since I think the result won't be good, even with a grid, but if it is, there's finally improvement!
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« Reply #424 on: April 03, 2013, 10:56:31 AM »

I don't wanna confuse you anymore, you might be measuring your abilities wrong.  You're training your senses to be more sensitive and receptive to your drawing, don't measure yourself by the quality of the finished piece but pay attention to the process, which involves almost all the senses.

there's a point when you genuinely connect with your senses and your drawing, I consider it kind of meditative, your focus becomes sharp and considers every element that makes up artwork.

When you start out drawing, you don't notice the process very much, your focus is elsewhere, its on the subject usually.  Your process becomes second nature harking back to how you think you should be drawing, which is usually the problem.

long advice short pay more attention to how your senses are perceiving when drawing.  Your quality of work will likely improve.
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gimymblert
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« Reply #425 on: April 03, 2013, 11:26:39 AM »

Actually 1h per day is quite a lot Wink
Of course you get criticism here, but think of it as weight lifting, you won't see the result immediately, but you do have the debriefing.

But yeah listen to softchange, he is spot on!
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TheShard1994
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« Reply #426 on: April 03, 2013, 11:48:42 AM »

Ah I meant to say max an hour haha, it's mostly about 15 minutes, sometimes 30 and rarely 60.

No worries, I listen to all advice I get by everyone, I'm not missing a single thing!
And it seems like I sounded like I don't like the criticism, which is not true, I do! That's why I'm asking for it Cheesy, I'm never really troubled by it since I want to improve, so people being brutally honest is no problem
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gimymblert
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« Reply #427 on: April 03, 2013, 11:52:54 AM »

The min time to spend is 5mn so you are doing well Tongue
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TheShard1994
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« Reply #428 on: April 16, 2013, 08:34:22 AM »

So I've been pretty busy last week, but here's the grid-drawing of a human.
The reference pic is pretty badly scanned though, but I don't think that's a big problem.

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gimymblert
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« Reply #429 on: April 16, 2013, 11:11:17 AM »

That was to be expected, while the eagle is decent if a bit too cartoony, here was have a total implosion of the face! It validate my theory

Here a new rules, now you are drawing thing very 'manga' like, as in strong emphasis in simplifying to silouhette and edge, that's fine. But now try to draw more "details" inside the form. Fill the forms.
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TheShard1994
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« Reply #430 on: April 16, 2013, 11:37:09 AM »

But the outlines is fine, right? Because that's where my focus was, just like on the eagle.

And yeah, I didn't know how to do the face. If I drew what I saw, and not "thought" to see, the face turned out really creepy, with like huge nostrils and a weird mouth
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gimymblert
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« Reply #431 on: April 16, 2013, 02:32:18 PM »

But the outlines is fine, right? Because that's where my focus was, just like on the eagle.

And yeah, I didn't know how to do the face. If I drew what I saw, and not "thought" to see, the face turned out really creepy, with like huge nostrils and a weird mouth

It doesn't matter if it's turn weird, stick to it, that's the exercise, you should not beautify/correct what you are seeing

Try the same model upside down as an experiment
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« Reply #432 on: April 17, 2013, 01:56:14 AM »

now do the same picture but instead of concentrating on  the outline concentrate on light/dark .

you could also try and use some charcoal for that experiment.
or a soft pencil (2b and softer)

If you need some positive feedback : Yes the outline seems much better then a few pages ago! congrats on that.
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TheShard1994
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« Reply #433 on: April 17, 2013, 02:15:29 AM »

Try the same model upside down as an experiment

With or without a grid?

...
I'll do that Smiley And thanks! Yeah I thought it looked better myself, but if you guys didn't think so, I would really doubt my point of observation  Cheesy
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team_q
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« Reply #434 on: April 17, 2013, 07:32:29 AM »

You are drawing representations of elements of the face instead of the actual shapes of the features themselves. You render distinct eyes nose and mouth, not the shape of her face.
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« Reply #435 on: April 17, 2013, 08:41:04 AM »

You are drawing representations of elements of the face instead of the actual shapes of the features themselves. You render distinct eyes nose and mouth, not the shape of her face.
this is honestly your biggest problem right now and it's kind of frustrating to see

you're not treating 3d surfaces as if they are 3d
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Impossible Realms
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« Reply #436 on: April 18, 2013, 07:34:35 AM »

Posted this in the art thread a few days ago, maybe it'll fit in better here...

I'm not exactly sure which thread this goes in, but I've been working on a cartoon-styled crate texture to practice texture making:

Any tips for improvement?
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Blambo
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« Reply #437 on: April 18, 2013, 06:04:29 PM »

You are drawing representations of elements of the face instead of the actual shapes of the features themselves. You render distinct eyes nose and mouth, not the shape of her face.

Totally. He's not interpreting the subject as abstract shapes and forms, but as symbolic representations.

@Shard, if you can't overcome seeing the face as ideal symbolic representations, try drawing something you see less of. That way, you can focus more on what you see and less of what you think you see. Draw some tree bark, rocks, tires, whatever; it doesn't matter if you shade it or not, because you've drawn what's in front of you.

I still insist you draw some shapes to help your abstract interpretation and your rendering skills at the same time. I have a book (I'm so sorry; it's in Chinese because I couldn't find any translation) that details a rather unique hatching rendering skill that allows you to holistically judge forms before committing to a certain magnitude of darkness, and slowly build up values until you have a finished drawing. It breaks observed forms down into lines, which can be compiled and form curves, which can be recompiled to the original form, all in the same proportion.

I'm going to scan the parts of the book, annotate it, and post it here sometime during this week. I think it's so incredibly necessary to learn this first.
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Cellusious
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« Reply #438 on: April 19, 2013, 12:39:48 AM »

Posted this in the art thread a few days ago, maybe it'll fit in better here...

I'm not exactly sure which thread this goes in, but I've been working on a cartoon-styled crate texture to practice texture making:

Any tips for improvement?

If you want a good tip. Start small before you go big. a 16x16 or even 8x8 forces you to think about design instead of using the rectangle tool. a 128x128 leaves a lot of room for detail, but also alot of room for failure.
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TheShard1994
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« Reply #439 on: April 19, 2013, 04:39:33 AM »

I'm going to scan the parts of the book, annotate it, and post it here sometime during this week. I think it's so incredibly necessary to learn this first.

Oh that'd be great!

I've also obtained 6 books by Andrew Loomis lately and a book by Giovanni Civardi, so I'll have a lot of reference to learn from. My final exams are due a month, so after I've finished that I'll have loads of free time and finally be able to read some literature on the subject.

This summer holiday I'll be taking a trip to Switzerland, the location promises to have a great view so I'm planning to do some drawings of the environment there, that'll count as observational practice Smiley
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