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[portabello]

How are the nitty gritty details the interesting part?  The only reason this game is interesting is because it lets you play as a serial killer and this is only interesting because of the moral and ethical issues of murder.  Chatting about the ethics of games and how they relate to society is still chatting about games.

[Nate Kling]

The old "mindless sheep" argument, huh? Nice. Okay, we can go on about morality. Who cares about games when we could be chatting about ethics? What would you consider a proper element of maturity?

I'd rather you just say "yeah,I can see how some people could be concerned with an ethical dilemma presented by this game but I'd rather not talk about that Id rather just talk about the gameplay" or something. Instead of people saying that anyone who is interested in the discussion are just babies and unjustified in their concern.  Although I can see how this discussion could be annoying for someone who wants to talk about the gameplay.  Maybe a different thread would be more appropriate for the conversation.

[Paint by Numbers]

I said that a while ago. In fact, I've been whining at everyone to take the morality discussion elsewhere since the first post; apparently that wasn't enough.

GET YOUR OWN THREAD! PLEASE!

We cool?

[Seth]

Being completely earnest, I would like to hear why Paint by Numbers or anyone else who is very interested in the "gameplay not morality" aspect of the game why they are so excited about this game.  I mean, why does a game about being Serial Killer appeal to you so much, if you're not interested in any moral or ethical questions?  Maybe there should be a separate thread, but I genuinely want to know.

[Carrie Nation]

Being completely earnest, I would like to hear why Paint by Numbers or anyone else who is very interested in the "gameplay not morality" aspect of the game why they are so excited about this game.  I mean, why does a game about being Serial Killer appeal to you so much, if you're not interested in any moral or ethical questions?  Maybe there should be a separate thread, but I genuinely want to know.

• Sounds like it will have a ton of replayability, I look forward to creating a bunch of different back stories for a bunch of different serial killers and playing their killing sprees out.
• Something about being the sadistic player in a world of NPCs who I can fuck with appeals to some darker side of me. I loved the level in Fallout 3 where I got to be the Pint Sized Slasher
• I like roguelikes, this is a roguelike
• I like open ended, free roaming games with character creation and customization

[Molten_]

Being completely earnest, I would like to hear why Paint by Numbers or anyone else who is very interested in the "gameplay not morality" aspect of the game why they are so excited about this game.  I mean, why does a game about being Serial Killer appeal to you so much, if you're not interested in any moral or ethical questions?  Maybe there should be a separate thread, but I genuinely want to know.

Because it presents lots of gameplay opportunities. I mean, I play first person shooters where killing things is completely normal -- I don't see how this is any worse

[Seth]

Sorry, I should have been more clear:

Why does playing the role of a Serial Killer appeal to you so much? (I realize your second bullet touches on this)

edit:  I didn't mean for this to be confrontational, I apologize that it came off that way, I just meant with my original question I was more interested in the attraction to the Serial Kiler aspect of the game rather than more typical stuff like character customization.

[Paint by Numbers]

Like Keyser and rAzz - super replayability. CrimsonKing's working on implementing an entire PG city full of people, and I love programming PG, so it'll be entertaining just to see. I also want to replicate serial killers from real life or from fiction just for the hell of it. And, of course, because I really am that juvenile, I think it'll be fun to drop sex toys around the scene of the crime or whatever just to see what happens. Plus, it seems that you'll have a very complex time avoiding being captured, which should be interesting.

I have no issue with that questions being asked, since it was actually about the game.

Edit: Oh, a more confrontational question, asked specifically to me. My answer is because it lets me do all the things listed above.

Another edit: Clarification.

[Melly]

Focus the discussion on the game itself from now on. Deviation won't be tolerated.

[Paint by Numbers]

Thank you very much, Melly.

[Xion]

seth, it doesn't appeal to me because it's about being a serial killer, it appeals to me because it looks like it's gonna be rad-fucking face-smashingly awesome game (that happens to be about being a serial killer).

The whole thing about stalking your victims beforehand alone (if you so choose) very much differs from just about every other game that I know of, where it's usually more of a "shoot on sight" type deal, or even when you do have to observe them it's more of a forced wait for them to ie. get to a place where you can less riskily take them out.

Plus the whole mental profile thing with the multiple personality disorder and victim profiles etc. seems like a nice way to add variety to the game so that not everyone is playing as a generic stalker-killer. Increases replayability tenfold. I like how they don't seem like they'd necessarily make the game more difficult, so much as make the game difficult in different ways, which is something that very much interests me.

Beyond that, the detail of the combat looks pretty damn amazing, and I especially like that you don't appear to be able to stab someone/thing fifty times and still expect it to have half of its hp left. Injury-based fighting systems have always interested me but they've always seemed harder to make intuitive than hp-based systems, where how dead you are is directly related to a single variable. This is why IVAN confused me sometimes, cuz I'd have like half my hp left but I'd die from a blow to the head, and it was a weird, hard-to-read mix of hp and injury.

Also, the whole thing about leaving evidence behind and the consequences of your actions ranging from capital punishment to community service and the justice system seems pretty damn rad, and I hope he pulls it all off well, because that could be some crazy mad shit to have in a game right there.

Just the emergent stories that could come from this is like, woah, man. I mean you hear about those kinds of stories in DF and other Roguelikes and stuff, but it'd be nice to have some of those kinds of stories in a more modern setting. But in a more modern setting it's kind of hard to rationalize emergent stories where you kill alot of things - as in most other RLs - unless it's in a war or something. Anyway whatever. I'm lookin' forward to this shit like a broke man to a paycheck.

[Swattkidd]

I hope the comments about complaining and being a "baby" weren't directed toward me because thats far from what I was doing, I was just trying to have a discussion and add to it of how people feel about this game, but I guess thats not what people want.

Anyway, the game does look pretty interesting and I look forward to seeing how it evolves.

[Contrary]

How about I just say that I enjoy serial killing very much in real life, therefore I like this game. It's not the appeal as an intellectual puzzle or challenge, it's not how technically impressive it is, but it's simply that the subject matter is perverse and I'M perverse.

The REAL question is why people play abstract games like tetris.

[Melly]

Contrary, don't try to add fuel to the fire, please.

[Seth]

How about I just say that I enjoy serial killing very much in real life, therefore I like this game. It's not the appeal as an intellectual puzzle or challenge, it's not how technically impressive it is, but it's simply that the subject matter is perverse and I'M perverse.

The REAL question is why people play abstract games like tetris.

Come on, not one of you is attracted to this game because it's very specifically about being a serial killer?  That's disappointing.  I don't know if you guys just aren't admitting it or if it really is all about gameplay for you guys.

Personally, the game appeals to me because it is about serial killing, even if that makes me a little uncomfortable.  Sadism is a very human thing. I think this game has a chance to say something powerful about the subject.  It probably already has.  I mean, with the roguelike presentation, it's very easy for people to shut off their empathy for these at signs, and really focus on the intellectual challenges of the whole process, and the thrill of taunting police, etc.  I mean, isn't that how serial killers act?  Without empathy, and as though the whole thing was just a game?  This game could be a very interesting glimpse in how serial killers view the world.

EDIT: Sorry, is this too much about ethics or morals?  I wasn't intending for it to be, exactly, but I'll go over to the other thread.