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TIGSource ForumsPlayerGamesTale of Tale's "Over Games" Presentation
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« Reply #240 on: September 01, 2010, 01:28:44 AM »

Great thread guys, keep it up!  Hand Thumbs Up LeftWink




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Sam
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« Reply #241 on: September 01, 2010, 05:05:03 AM »

I think it's silly and childish of him to post and rant and mock about another forum. Really immature, very annoying, and adds nothing intelligent to the conversation. Anti-forum behaviour that doesn't quite belong here. Go to icycalm's forum if you want nothing to do but bash other people all day.

Interesting you'd mention that.  AshfordPride already has been to Icycalm's forums, but his only post was received rather poorly:

Quote from: Icycalm
And stop posting in this thread because your smarmy tone is annoying me.  You take way too long to say way too little.
He was banned soon after.

AshfordPride's posts in this thread actually sound an awful lot like Icycalm on his own forum, if you removed the reasoned argument and passionate beliefs, and replaced them with "guys I'm just doing it for the lulz."  Which on reflection doesn't make for very interesting discussion.

--

Anarkex is just a misogynistic ass (AshfordPride once explained to him how Icycalm says misogyny is actually fine, but neither quite managed to follow the argument - it totally had something to do with Nietzsche though) that likes to follow in Ashford's e-shadow.  That, and cover his formspring in photos of someone else's cock to attract "the lovely girlies".

--

You'll notice I'm not engaging in the topic of the thread, because as AshfordPride so delightfully put it, that'd be like ordering a burger filled with shit.  Makes me think he has some inkling that he's not produced a quality discussion thread, but of course that shouldn't stop him from keeping on truckin'.

You brought me and a fair portion of this thread down to your level.  Congratulations!  You win.
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AshfordPride
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« Reply #242 on: September 01, 2010, 07:10:56 AM »

He was banned soon after.

I did it for my bro Anarkex/punkomix.  He said something stupid in the thread, something which icycalm probably would've banned him for, and I tried to defuse it.  I had an account there, so I posted, got myself banned, and Anarkex is still there.  I really don't mind, I only lurk his forums anyway.  I think that account was several months old before I posted that.  I can still lurk and read what icycalm has to say.

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AshfordPride's posts in this thread actually sound an awful lot like Icycalm on his own forum,

Thanks, I'd like to think that if I could be even a tiny iota as effective as him in expressing his ideas and making them interesting to read th-

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if you removed the reasoned argument and passionate beliefs, and replaced them with "guys I'm just doing it for the lulz."  Which on reflection doesn't make for very interesting discussion.

You're really going to write off everything I said as something as stupid as that.  If I was trolling, I wouldn't be able to back up anything I had to say.  I'm not a troll, I'm not a strawman, I'm a flesh and blood person of moderate intelligence who is capable of expressing and supporting his opinions!  

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Anarkex is just a misogynistic ass

I can't wait for him to wake up so he can see this.

I won't reply to this paragraph, despite how much I really, really want to.  

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You'll notice I'm not engaging in the topic of the thread,

That'd seem adequate reason to have you removed from it, wouldn't it?  Come into a thread, act like a massive tool, and then announce how much of a massive tool you intend to be.  I mean, how did you expect me to respond to this, Salt?  Obviously the forum is against me, so a person coming into this thread and posting a wall of insults against the OP because you disagree with them isn't going to be reprimanded or even looked down upon by the "tigsource family", but at the very least Salt you'd have to realize that it's not going to HELP.  

You're just mad.  That's okay.  It's okay to get mad when someone has repeatedly offered opposition to your argument.  

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You brought me and a fair portion of this thread down to your level.  Congratulations!  You win.

The only person who can bring you down is, well, yourself.  I have never behaved in a manner that was destructive to this thread.  We've kept up this conversation for several pages, with long, thought out posts from each sides filled with passion and a real dedication to indie games, however they choose to express it...

And then there's you, who thinks it's acceptable to come into my thread and act like a complete ass because, when in Rome.  Stop ignoring what I have to say because it's insulting to you.  You knew how I was going to reply to your posts, you had several pages of conversations to draw upon.  Don't bait me with shit like "Oh please do correct me if anything is wrong~ and then get mad when I tell you you're wrong.  Your points are muddled, confusing, and at times it's very hard to tell whose side of the argument you're even on. The schlock you've been slinging this entire thread has been equally insulting to me, but I at least entertained it.  

Salt, you were the reason I locked this thread before.  Because I knew that you were trouble.  
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« Reply #243 on: September 01, 2010, 08:12:15 AM »

I like how you guys have just given up arguing about the actual topic at this point.
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Sam
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« Reply #244 on: September 01, 2010, 08:15:12 AM »

Asking you to correct me if I interpreted your points incorrectly wasn't 'baiting', it was me asking you to correct me if I had interpreted your points incorrectly.  In your reply you didn't correct me, but acted in a manner that suggested I had either misrepresented you or wildly insulted you.  This means no reasoned debate can happen, because I do not know what positions you hold.

I still do not know what positions you hold, because everything you say is so covered in excess STUFF.  Try to reply to a point and it turns out you were being sarcastic, or "obviously overstating" for dramatic effect, or just having a joke.

If you're a person of moderate intelligence who is capable of expressing and supporting your opinions please just do that.  Clearly and succinctly state what you are arguing for.  I tried to extract such statements of intent from your opening post, but apparently failed so much all you could do was mock me and argue about my discussion around the points which it seems aren't what you're arguing for anyway, and so are moot.

You'll now notice that I haven't clearly and succinctly stated what I'm arguing for on the topic of ToT and Notgames.  That is because I'm not arguing for anything.  All I tried to do in this thread was extract meaning from the objections to their presentation (beyond just "jeez, they're pretty pretentious huh?" which I think almost anyone would agree with) and discuss around those points a little.  Analysis for the sake of understanding.  That is why you can't tell whose side I am on.  Except my last post of course, that was there to let off steam.

I'd love to talk about Notgames and what game design should be and all that with someone that obviously holds very strong views.  That is why I keep posting in this thread, even though I'm making myself look like a tool.
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Renton
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« Reply #245 on: September 01, 2010, 08:26:10 AM »

Great work, guys. Really, this has been a fascinating read.  Hand Thumbs Up Left Cave Story
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Derek
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« Reply #246 on: September 01, 2010, 05:27:21 PM »

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It's funny, though... ToT, Auntie Pixelante, icycalm... each of them represents a polar point of view about what makes games worthwhile, and they ridicule and put down one another (directly and indirectly) all the time. They're so different and yet similar in that regard.

They all take the same approach to the way they feel about things. The difference is that ToT is completely lost and spews contradictions at every turn, Anna Anthropy is quite lost and praises petty game design tricks in tiny, unimportant games, and Icycalm, due to his background and intelligence, is actually able to take a logical, methodical approach to form his theory which provides a solid groundwork for understanding games of all kinds. But for some reason people like ToT are almost universally praised even outside the indie community, Anna is a prominent blogger with multiple connections across the indie scene, and Icycalm is hated even on hardcore gaming forums like 4chan /v/ (implying /v/ is hardcore) and shmups.com.

Haha, I don't find that analysis inaccurate, actually. And between the three, I've personally gotten the most from icy's writing - I especially like his article about arcade games and the one called "on depth, complexity, and skill" or something like that. The philosophy articles are interesting, too. The fact that he hates indie games is beside that particular point for me. Tongue

If icycalm is despised more than ToT or Anna, then it's probably because he hasn't made a game himself?
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