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1073708 Posts in 44001 Topics- by 36021 Members - Latest Member: floorman

December 20, 2014, 10:38:59 AM
TIGSource ForumsPlayerGeneralDo you smoke?
Poll
Question: Do you smoke tobacco?
No, never - 221 (63.7%)
I used to but I quit - 23 (6.6%)
On occasion, but not every day - 33 (9.5%)
Yes, daily - 25 (7.2%)
Yeah, but I'm trying to quit - 8 (2.3%)
I smoke other stuff, but not cigarettes - 37 (10.7%)
Total Voters: 307

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« Reply #260 on: April 14, 2011, 10:03:31 PM »

I'm going to smoke a lot of marijuana on 420

God I'm so fucking annoying

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Gabriel Verdon
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« Reply #261 on: April 15, 2011, 03:27:04 AM »

Never smoked. Don't ever plan to. I don't see the point in getting into it, and it sounds way too hard to stop once you start.

I can't say I agree with that way of thinking.

It reminds me a lot of "straight-edge" people who have become straight-edge without ever trying drugs or alchohol. To me that is the same as being a fundamental religious person - you are making claims and judgements based on faith, or just joining a team to be cool.

I think its important to try things and then decide if they are right for you or not. I've personally tried a few different drugs and they were all interesting experiences, but nothing was really amazing enough to get me to want to spend a significant part of my life pursuing. I get much more of a charge creating things. I still think it's important to try these things though just to give you a different perspective on life, even if it's very temporary. Often times it makes you realize how beautiful the mundane can be.

EDIT: Oh wait, I just realized you were talking about cigaretts. I thought this about weed. But yeah, cigarettes are fucking dumb.
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« Reply #262 on: April 15, 2011, 05:59:44 AM »

That's really dangerous advice. Most people could probably give a bit of this and a bit of that a try without any problems but some people can get into a real mess "trying" drugs before making a decision. There's a lot of talk these days about having an "addictive personality" - which may or may not be a constructive way of describing it - and that sort of person, with poor impulse control or whatever else the issue may be, would be a lot better off staying well clear.
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« Reply #263 on: April 15, 2011, 09:42:20 AM »

@Gabriel Verdon:
You don't have to drop a brick on your foot to know you won't like it. Perhaps a lot of those people see other people become intoxicated and think to themselves, "Yeah, that's not for me". Perhaps they've experienced just enough to decide that life as is is more enjoyable when it's not "enhanced" artificially. Perhaps they have legitimate medical reasons not to.

Besides, like any holiday 4/20 is just a scam to make more money by tricking people into smoking more. Apparently over 50% of yearly profits for the industry are made this month.
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« Reply #264 on: April 15, 2011, 10:28:59 AM »

That's really dangerous advice. Most people could probably give a bit of this and a bit of that a try without any problems but some people can get into a real mess "trying" drugs before making a decision. There's a lot of talk these days about having an "addictive personality" - which may or may not be a constructive way of describing it - and that sort of person, with poor impulse control or whatever else the issue may be, would be a lot better off staying well clear.

I didn't really mean it as advice, I was just expressing my own way of thinking (using the universal "you").  Like you said, it may not work for everyone, but for me I feel like it has made me a more experienced and open-minded person. I would never actually ask someone to try something they weren't comfortable with trying - however I would lose respect for someone for making judgements about something or someone without personal experience (the same way I lose respect for someone who bases his/her belief system on faith). Having said that, I think it's also dangerous to go through your entire life without ever trying to change your perspective. It's very easy to get stuck in a particular way of thinking, and sometimes violently shifting that for a short period of time forces you address personal problems that you may normally have hidden or ignored. Of course there are other ways of changing your perspective (travel, meditation), but marijuana does it in a unique way that in my opinion has it's own value.

Keep in mind when I say "drugs" I'm referring primarily to marijuana, and in some cases mushrooms (I have never done mushrooms though). It's pretty obvious which drugs are dangerous (meth, herione, cocain, addictive prescription drugs, etc, the list goes on) and which are natural, and of course I always thoroughly research anything I plan on trying, get it from a trustworthy source, and be around people I trust when I try it.


@Gabriel Verdon:
You don't have to drop a brick on your foot to know you won't like it.

I'm not trying to be belligerent, but that is a bad analogy. Drugs are all wildly different - our own brain runs on a soup of different drugs. It is naive and ignorant to classify every drug as harmful, which is what that analogy does. Do you decide whether or not you like exotic food simply by watching someone else eat it? In some cases, sure - if the person chokes and dies, it's easy to make that decision. There are drugs that are extremely dangerous and it's easy to tell which ones are. Just watch TLC for a little while and you can find out really quick which drugs are harmful. But in a less extreme example, if the person tries the food and just doesn't like it, you have a choice. You can either make a judgement based on that person's claim and be a less experienced person for it, or you can try it yourself and make a judgement based on your own experience. Who knows, you may actually like it. I'm not advocating stupidity - but I think this outlook should at least make sense to anyone who respects the scientific method, which tells us to make judgements based on our own observations/experiences rather than the claims of others.

@Gabriel Verdon:
Perhaps they've experienced just enough to decide that life as is is more enjoyable when it's not "enhanced" artificially. Perhaps they have legitimate medical reasons not to.

I'm not sure you read my whole post. I wholeheartedly support both of those reasons - like I said, I think it's important to try things. If someone tries it and doesn't like it, all the power to them - I have a lot of respect for that. And why would I tell somebody to try something which would hurt them because of a medical condition? You are arguing against things I never said.

Besides, like any holiday 4/20 is just a scam to make more money by tricking people into smoking more. Apparently over 50% of yearly profits for the industry are made this month.

I agree with this - I've never participated in 4/20 and it doesn't particularily interest me.


« Last Edit: April 15, 2011, 10:37:24 AM by Gabriel Verdon » Logged

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« Reply #265 on: April 15, 2011, 10:29:51 AM »

@Gabriel Verdon:
You don't have to drop a brick on your foot to know you won't like it.

Yeah, but the reason you know that is cos you probably have experienced things very similar to dropping a brick on your foot.  Drugs are a very different experience.

Perhaps a lot of those people see other people become intoxicated and think to themselves, "Yeah, that's not for me".

Yeah, but you only see the outward effects of the intoxication, which if done responsibly is simply looking stupid.  Anyone afraid of looking stupid will lead a boring life, IMO.

Perhaps they've experienced just enough to decide that life as is is more enjoyable when it's not "enhanced" artificially.

What is this "just enough" that one might experience that would lead one to think they don't want new experiences?

Perhaps they have legitimate medical reasons not to.

This makes sense.
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« Reply #266 on: April 15, 2011, 10:38:07 AM »

I know it doesn't compare to experiencing it, but I've been told by people who do it how it feels. I personally don't find it attractive enough to intoxicate my body in exchange. I think it's fine to discard something you know you won't enjoy - it's not like trying an exotic dish or listening to a different kind of music, in my opinion.
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« Reply #267 on: April 15, 2011, 10:48:54 AM »

I know it doesn't compare to experiencing it, but I've been told by people who do it how it feels. I personally don't find it attractive enough to intoxicate my body in exchange. I think it's fine to discard something you know you won't enjoy - it's not like trying an exotic dish or listening to a different kind of music, in my opinion.

It's exactly like trying an exotic dish or listening to a different kind of music, albeit a lot more powerful. You are gaining new experiences and new perspectives. There are foods that you can eat that can make you sick, and there are types of music you can listen to which make you want to change your behaviour.

I'm not even saying that drugs are inherently good, or that you should try them - I'm just saying that I respect people who take responsibility to be as experienced and knowledgeable as possible. The same way that I respect someone who has travelled to many different countries and broadened their perspective because of it.

Based on your statement I have less respect for you. And that's fine - if you are an intelligent person, the respect of a random person on the internet shouldn't matter to you.
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« Reply #268 on: April 15, 2011, 11:01:52 AM »

You keep saying that those who don't at least try drugs are closed minded. First hand experience isn't necessary for all knowlege, which is why we have science. In fact, I'm a little offended that you think that there's something called "Saturn". Have you been there?

It's actually not exactly like trying an exotic dish or listening to a different kind of music. This part, "You are gaining new experiences and new perspectives" is false. You are actually imparing your senses, not using or heightening them. It seems foolish to argue that turning off parts of your brain is the same as using them.

Also, the argument that we are already on drugs is true, which is exactly why most people choose not to alter the already barely functioning set of drugs in the brain for fun trip. Substances need to be rigoriously test to have no adverse affects before people try them. Such is the biochemical study called medicine.
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« Reply #269 on: April 15, 2011, 11:10:27 AM »

Hey man, those are cool points and everything, but I really have nothing else to say.

I'm not asking anyone to try anything. If you have a pre-conceived notion that all drugs are bad and you are not willing to support that claim with firsthand experience, that's your choice. All I'm saying is that I respect people who are Experienced, and Knowledgable because of their experiences. Based on your post I have a feeling you've never tried marijuana, which is totally cool and everything. But if my assumption is true, then I've lost respect for you.
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« Reply #270 on: April 15, 2011, 11:21:46 AM »

Thanks for ignoring my arguement. Just take the time to think about it a bit.

Also you have no idea what I have and haven't done in my life. There's no need to judge people like that.
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« Reply #271 on: April 15, 2011, 11:53:28 AM »

Both the people who take drugs and those who don't should care less about what other people do.
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« Reply #272 on: April 15, 2011, 11:57:10 AM »

People who care about what people should care less doing should care less about it.
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« Reply #273 on: April 15, 2011, 12:07:57 PM »

derp
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« Reply #274 on: April 15, 2011, 05:31:48 PM »

Thanks for ignoring my arguement. Just take the time to think about it a bit.

Also you have no idea what I have and haven't done in my life. There's no need to judge people like that.

Well why don't you tell me about your experiences then? I would be interested to hear about them. I never judged you or claimed to know what has happened to you in your life. I said that based on the ignorant tone of your arguments it sounds to me like you haven't tried marijuana before, and if that was true then I wouldn't respect you as much as I might have. By using the word "if" I was giving you a chance to explain your drug-related experiences without making a prior judgment. I've never met anyone who has smoked cannabis and taken such a hostile stance against it, which is why I said that in the first place. But maybe I just haven't talked to enough people. So please, tell me about your experiences. I actually do want to hear about them.

It's actually not exactly like trying an exotic dish or listening to a different kind of music. This part, "You are gaining new experiences and new perspectives" is false. You are actually imparing your senses, not using or heightening them. It seems foolish to argue that turning off parts of your brain is the same as using them.

Can you provide a citation for that? I honestly don't understand how you can think this statement is true. When you drink a cup of coffee, do you become blind? As far as I know (I am not a scientist) drugs are just chemicals that affect your brain in different ways, causing synapses to fire under different conditions, or perhaps providing a conductive liquid, effectively reconfiguring your neural pathways. In some cases this could definitely lead to impaired senses, by blocking off areas of the brain. But in other cases, like with hallucinogens for example, they might cause certain impulses to be redirected to the part of your brain that controls sight, causing you to see weird things because of the non-formatted information being sent there. Kind of like renaming a text file as a .jpeg and then opening it in photoshop. Again, I am not a scientist so I'm just talking based on the relatively small amount of research I've done. So please enlighten me if you have information that proves otherwise.

The first problem with your claim is that it puts every single drug under a single umbrella. Do you understand that not all drugs are the exact same? The second problem is that, like I described above, all drugs do not simply "turn off" parts of your brain. By allowing information to be sent to different areas of the brain, you are creating new experiences. That's what happens when you travel to a new place - you are allowing light information to enter your brain via your eyes, in a pattern you've never seen before. A hallucinogen would cause random information to enter the sight part of your brain, via some other part of your brain or body rather than your eyes, in a pattern you've never seen before.

So basically your claim is both logically, and chemically (as far as I know) incorrect.


Also, the argument that we are already on drugs is true, which is exactly why most people choose not to alter the already barely functioning set of drugs in the brain for fun trip.[/i].

That's the entire fucking point. And I'm not saying that in an angry way, I'm just trying emphasize it. When we take certain drugs, like marijuana, mushrooms, or DMT for example, it can show us how fragile our consciousness really is, by fucking it up severely for a short amount of time, and in that process providing you a new perspective on life, in a similar (but more powerful) way that meditating or travelling to a new place would. And you're exactly right - that is why most people don't do it. Most people are scared of the unknown, scared to face their own insecurities, scared of moving out of their comfort zone. And this leads back to my point - if someone has never done anything but live quietly inside their own comfort zone, why should I take note of them, or have a lot of respect for them? I'm not asking anyone to do drugs. I'm simply stating that I respect people who challenge themselves and take risks in that way, the same way I respect MMA fighters, base-jumpers, surgeons, soldiers, firefighters, or even artists. Why should I respect someone who has never taken a risk?

Substances need to be rigoriously test to have no adverse affects before people try them. Such is the biochemical study called medicine.

If you are referring to cannabis, a simple google search will link to numerous sources, both legitimate and not, which will inform you that no one has died from smoking it, ever. And people have been smoking it since before recorded history - is that not rigorous enough testing for you?

And if you are referring to other drugs as well - then yes I wholeheartedly agree with you. That's why I stated in an earlier post that I always research any substance I plan to ingest.

I was ignoring your argument because I was trying not to get into an actual argument, but I guess we're there now. But I've addressed your (largely ignorant, flawed, and poorly thought through) points now, so if you want to continue, please address mine. And if you haven't bothered to read through my previous posts, I'll reiterate: I'm not asking, advising, or telling anyone to take drugs. I am simply stating my viewpoint on why I respect people who try to improve themselves by seeking out new experiences and taking risks.






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« Last Edit: April 15, 2011, 05:44:53 PM by Gabriel Verdon » Logged

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« Reply #275 on: April 15, 2011, 05:42:20 PM »

I don't get why you only respect dubie smoking hippies.
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« Reply #276 on: April 15, 2011, 05:48:09 PM »

I don't get why you only respect dubie smoking hippies.

I'm simply stating that I respect people who challenge themselves and take risks in that way, the same way I respect MMA fighters, base-jumpers, surgeons, soldiers, firefighters, or even artists. Why should I respect someone who has never taken a risk?

Seriously, this is getting pathetic. Please take the time to read my entire post Theo if you want to make comments and/or judgments about me.
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« Reply #277 on: April 15, 2011, 05:49:02 PM »

Goodness, you need to lighten up, I was only joking.
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« Reply #278 on: April 15, 2011, 05:50:49 PM »

Relax, and stop calling me ignorant. I do not think all drugs are the same. I know you're not trying to convince anyone to do drugs. But I don't like to be called close minded, because I don't think I am. I'll address your points a PM, I think there's a only a small difference in terms for how we define what drugs do that's at the crux of this disagreement.
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« Reply #279 on: April 15, 2011, 05:52:20 PM »

This is a srs bzns thread Theo. Please refrain from any further joking, or else I will call the internet police.
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