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[TDOT]

I personally like the second style from the left, but that might make him look a little too "kung-fu" :/

[I_smell]

OK, THE ART IS IN

It's not final art- y'know, the background's a bit crap an the UI's a box, but-- It's not stickmen anymore.

Animating this character was hard. It took a long time and a lot of effort. He has about 30 animations.
So the question is: Can I do this for AT LEAST 8 characters?
Well it'll take more than a month. It might even take more than 2. I'm scared that I might get up to about character #4 and start hating this game. I allready don't feel like it's the funnest thing in the world.

I'm gonna make a post on Newgrounds now, and MAYBE I'm gonna throw it at the Shoryuken boards.
They might laugh me out of the room, but it's worth a short.
I'm still desperately looking for a way to make this game super fun, and if I can find the missing ingredient, then I'll dive straight in to character #2.
If not, then I might shoot it in the head.

[Chris Whitman]

Oh man, nice animations!

Also, regarding difficulty, realize that from working on the game constantly you will be like ten times better at it than everyone else who plays it. If you make it hard for you, everyone else will find it impossible.

[mokesmoe]

I think that attacks need more knock back. Because you are always next to the other guy, it turns into kind of a spam fest. Also the sliding kick needs less knockback so he doesn't land right next to where you finish your slide.

[Rumrusher]

I think that attacks need more knock back. Because you are always next to the other guy, it turns into kind of a spam fest. Also the sliding kick needs less knockback so he doesn't land right next to where you finish your slide.

whao wait maybe for this guy his sliding kick causes a large knockback that can jeopardize someone if they don't chain it to a space special. also I notice jump kick can't hit the opponent now. well time to spam jump spins.

[I_smell]

Things are movin along pretty slow. I got a load of feedback, it was mostly "yo make his walk faster", "you should have a story in this game", "try n have crazy Smash Bros bonus stages".
All good ideas, but nothin really blew me away.

I'm halfway through updating the art, so ignore any framerate shittiness.
I'm not happy with the Special animation- I went with the colour scheme that the game was allready developing, which is basically COMPLETELY random with no thought put into it. I'm gonna have to think of a plot or setting or somethin to give the whole thing some consistency. Like IT'S A GAMESHOW! or IT'S A TOURNAMENT! or YOU'RE IN THE ANIMUS! or something.

Not really too excited about this game, I can't really express why.
I'll start sketchin the next dude sometime soon. I wanna make a British rock-legend guy, but will I go with exhausted-old-man or trendy-young-ruffian? Only time will tell.

[kenesque]

Oh man, no pushback or proper hitstop... if you don't know what those are, I can gladly define them for you, but every single good fighting game have both of those.

Is there some sort of fallout animation for combos? Or is the infinite I'm doing not working because I suck? If you get someone in a corner and do crouching kick repeatedly and timed well, the CPU gets trapped forever and I can KO them from full I'm pretty sure (though it is quite difficult, seems to be one frame timing). Seems like the enemy arbitrarily leaves hitstun however.

If you want to focus entirely on art, myself and a programmer have an entirely functional engine:

We are sadly without an animator. I'm a tournament level fighting game player, if you want at least a bunch of advice or have any questions, you're also welcome to PM me if you want to make this game better.

Also, regarding difficulty, realize that from working on the game constantly you will be like ten times better at it than everyone else who plays it. If you make it hard for you, everyone else will find it impossible.

I found an infinite in two minutes and haven't lost to the CPU yet.

Also you can crouch throws and I can't block anything for the record.

[mokesmoe]

You can also infinite by doing a sliding kick into a downed enemy with good timing so he gets up, gets hit, lands behind you, and then you do it again.

Grabs can be a bit glitchy. If you grab a falling opponent you do the animation by yourself. Sometimes the computer can 'block' grabs, and he just kinda jumps up a bit.

Under rare non-reproducible circumstances, you can float off the ground while still in your standing animation during slowdown. One time I floated up and towards the computer while doing the crouch kick, and it looked like I was doing some awesome dropkick.

[Triplefox]

Not really too excited about this game, I can't really express why.

"Do what you love," you know?

Let me try to make you reconsider. You've basically been asking for that through the entire thread. As it is, this game is specifically structured as a clone of SF2-type fighting games, and by definition can only be "as good" as the best games of that genre. The only difference is you're trying to put yourself through the wringer to make and balance content at a scale comparable to games with real budgets and sizable teams - a difference which would allow the team to specialize, narrow their focus, and generally not feel overwhelmed by the task. Right from the beginning you've knowingly positioned yourself with a Sisyphean challenge.

But if you could build it, ship it, and get deserved attention, acclaim, $$$, or whatever it would all be OK. The real problem is that you've already got a bunch of fighter players breathing down your neck to make it to the same quality level as those games. The player psychology is working against you and bringing attention away from the game as a worthy unique effort. Instead it is being judged in every way to the big-budget projects. These comparisons will happen despite any intended goodwill from players. So you won't win. This stuff about "it should have this feature - I want more x - it's unbalanced - the CPU was easy" will drag on forever and drive you nuts. Even if you finish it will be a blip on the gaming universe's radar and disappear quickly.

Instead, go back to the beginning and really try to reinvent the genre. Maybe research the earliest fighting games. You can still do a game with fighter-type visuals, including all the content you've done so far, but make it play as radically differently as possible so that you can distance yourself from the SF2 comparisons and take proper ownership of the game. That's what you should do to feel really happy about where this project is going.

[I_smell]

Pushback hitstop infinites, engine

Ok the enemy now gets pushed back a lot further when you hit em, and if they're blocking then you now get pushed back. So that'll avoid people gettin stuck in corners. You can also block the slide-tackle now, so that's less crazy.
Hitstop- I THINK- is the pause you get in Street Fighter whenever a hit hits. I think that's only a thing in Capcom games, cos SF4 was actually the first place I ever had to get used to it. I've done fine without it fo years, so I don't think it's a total necessity. Also I can't code it properly- lol.
And I would totally help on your game, depending on what you were goin for. I'm still makin my own though cos I do this for a living, so it's gonna happen anyway.

I've improved the AI slightly. It's harder, and more cheat-proof. Also I actually caught myself liking this game again!
I actually lose a lot now, and I think that's a big chunk of what was missing. I dived back into some games and remembered that I am SHIT at them. The fun of these games is bein put under pressure, bein careful of mistakes and careful when you jump. Also I like bein bad at the game, and then becoming good at it.
I think it was starting to feel like a beat-em-up where you just hammer gremlins to death; but what I need to do is make the AI an absolute fucking terminator. Getting beat fair n square feels good, and makes winning feel way better.

You won't be happy until it's as good as a commercial game- and it never will be.

You are absolutely right.

n it was the biggest mistake I've ever made game-wise. So I WILL NOT spend more than 2 months on this (I'm good on sellin it, that's not a big worry) and I WILL NOT expand out of the controls I've got: Punch, Kick, Throw, Special.
I flip-flop on the unique gameplay thing a lot. I've definately made some weird games, and I love kickin the shit out of the scrolling shooter genre- but with fighting games I just can't do it. Any idea I think of seems to just be a distraction from what I'm goin for.
I wanna give people what I get from these games, but with all new characters, super easy controls, and for free.
I think making the AI less cheatable is a good step towards the feeling I'm tryin to get out of people.
Oh and I'm not super into balancing or hit-priority, or anything too crazy, so I'm not worried about gettin lost in that. This game is aimed at people who don't know what a dash-cancel is, but if those guys like it then that's a bonus.

TOO MUCH TEXT- HERE'S SOME CHARACTER SKETCHES FO THE NEXT DUDE:


Not done yet, I wanna pull him a bit more in the direction of coke-fiend.

[kenesque]

Hitstop is the difference between hitstun and blockstun. Is there even blockstun in the game? I can barely tell.

Blockstun/hitstun = Both characters pause when a move connects, this allows you to know that a move actually connected.

Hitstop is the difference between these two (added hitstun that is only there because a move hit) and allows you to know that a move connected (entirely through feel). this is done so moves actually have impact. Generally, the stronger/more impactful the attack, the longer hitstop is. Nothing happens during hitstop that is dependent of the character. Things like projectiles, the timer, etc continue as normal during hitstop.

Pushback generally should be happening during a move's recovery, and never during hitstun/stop. When a move connects and puts someone into blockstun/blockstop, what happens is even though both characters are entirely paused, you can still do inputs and they buffer into the first possible frame the characters continue acting. This makes things like canceling into attacks MUCH easier and more fluid for the player.

Generally hitstop should range from between 8-30 frames, depending on the game and how powerful you want the move to feel. In faster paced games, generally the maximum amount of hitstop per normal attack would be in the 15 range.

If you want a better idea of how these things work: http://dustloop.com/guides/ggac/data/hitstun.html This is about the best explanation I know of on a technical level.


The game we are making would be similar to Guilty Gear or Marvel vs Capcom 2 (without the team aspect or the 40 characters are useless aspect), essentially, well balanced, well designed, character specific "bullshit". Every character would feel incredibly powerful and diverse, and making the game as accessible to new players as possible without dumbing down high level play.

It's coded in XNA and currently has joystick support, the engine itself is pretty barebones but we halted work to make other games until we have an animator.
http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=15832.0
That's an old thread that has more detail on the features. Myself and the programmer have an extremely strong fundamental understanding of fighting games. I play them at tournament level (as in, I place top 5 in certain games repeatedly) and have a diverse background of games I know a lot about.

I have also extensively tested the old (pre-Mike Z) version of Skullgirls and pretty much destroyed that engine through bug-finding.

Anyway if you have any questions for me pertaining to anything, you're welcome to ask away.

[nihilocrat]

There need to be more indie fighting games, so I fully support this idea. I'll check it out when I get home. I am super confident there is space for indies to experiment and succeed in the fighting game space ever since playing NIDHOGG.

[mokesmoe]

Super smash bros has hitstop too.

I managed to glitch the game by using my special at the same time as the computer's. He started his and the blue lines where in the background, but I started like a frame after him, and the blue got replaced by my orange. Both of us got frozen by each others specials and no bulls came from either side. After the orange lines faded, both of us were still stuck.

[I_smell]

HEY I haven't updated fr a while cos I don't work over christmas.




He has a couple key differences than the other guy. I'm not 100% done with im yet, as I'm not happy with his regular kick or his Super. I think they both look stupid.
His background could do with some work n all.

BUT I'm gonna start a new character now I think. I'd hate to be stuck on one thing fr ages, so I'll come back to this guy later.

I want the next character to be a presidential bodyguard. He'll be broad, black, bald, he'll wear sunglasses and be extremely proud of himself. At least one of his back-attacks is gonna be a throw, and he'll be able to tackle people to the ground from running. Maybe his special will be a throw, I dunno.

Anyway there are two characters now, how cool is that?

Btw I've bin lookin for stuff to read about what makes fighting games fun. I read a lot of this before I realised it was a load of shit. Then I read this and noticed his fundamental bullet-points are pretty much the same as mine- except his game came out shit. He used 6 buttons fr some reason.
Interesting stuff!

[Greg Game Man]

looks amazing, animation is brilliant and i really dig the guitar dude character.. looks like a very creative process making the different characters and moves!

Definitely make the keys customisable, and have local 2player in there!

[Kit]

Ok, that's totally badass. The fighting engine is really well done, and that video seals it for me. So.. as to your question.

Can you? Should you?

[I_smell]

Third guy sketched:


It's not good enough yet. He looks too small n I can't fit all the right features into this tiny drawing. I think his pose is right but he needs to be more INTIMIDATING.

Workin on it.

[oyog]

Dude.  DUDE!

Fantastic visuals.

[McMutton]

Have you tries stylizing him a bit? For example, making his head smaller, shoulders wider, and legs shorter?

[mokesmoe]

I think you should have his arms crossed for his idle animation, and make him seem kind of 'uninterested' in the fight, looking down on the other player. (Like in the first picture)