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878892 Posts in 32944 Topics- by 24352 Members - Latest Member: odingrey

May 22, 2013, 10:57:51 PM
TIGSource ForumsDeveloperFeedbackDevLogsAngry Moth (revised demo 14 May 2011)
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Author Topic: Angry Moth (revised demo 14 May 2011)  (Read 5805 times)
Andy Wolff
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« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2011, 03:53:51 PM »

Hellspider is one of my favorite games, despite its flaws, and I am very excited to see that you're making this.

Good luck
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linley
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« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2011, 08:15:00 PM »

The only thing I can mention though is that it seems it can get a little cluttered at times and hard to differentiate enemy ship from weapon fire etc; although it could just be because I am watching a youtube video of it rather then actually playing it.

Yes, this is a lot clearer in full 800x600 resolution, although the really intense battles are supposed to be chaotic and confusing if you just fly straight into the middle of them like I do in the video. I have room in the 256 colour palette for another set of transparent colours alongside the yellowish red for friendly things and the blue for enemies, and I'm thinking of using it for a purplish red for enemy drive exhaust and explosions. This should help differentiate some of the chaos.

You should have a more constant momentum. Particularly in the AI ships, is what I'm getting at. Just having them stay there feels very lifeless. Even a small drift with the occasional movement would really liven things up.

Do you mean the big warships? I'm still deciding how they will move, hopefully in a more interesting way than in the video. My main difficulty is that I don't want it to be possible for them to overlap. My original plan was to just have them flying towards and past each other but I think you're right, that's not going to be good enough.

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Aside from that, I implore you to take advantage of the large outer space, and don't try to focus on small compact battle spaces. Really make them big and spread out!

Don't worry, they're going to be huge. I'll do a longer post on how the missions and the overall structure of the game will work sometime later.

This is beginning to look a lot like a game I was developing earlier but never really got to finishing called Kreuzzug : http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=11206.0

Nice. I like the glowing exhaust trails - inspired by Project Sylpheed? (for anyone who hasn't played it, it's a decent but not great Xbox 360 space sim with plenty of obvious Freespace references)

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I was actually planning to limit the player's control only to the squadron of fighters they are in; both enemy and friendly fighters would operate in squadrons of about 5 and you could give them various orders such as: fire at will, retreat, stay in formation, attack a particular squad / capital ship. You could replenish missing fighters in your squadron by returning to a friendly carrier, which would launch enough fighters to get you back to 5, probably with some kind of recharging required so players don't just stay glued to carriers. Losing your whole squad would just mean you'd respawn from a friendly carrier under similar recharge / cooldown constraints. The inspiration came less from space sims, where you generally want to stay alive and action stops if you die, and more from shmups, where death is easy but not so heavily punished.

Yeah, a design decision that keeps coming up is how simmy versus how arcadey I want the game to be. At this stage it could go either way but I'm leaning towards a more simmy style, partly because that seems rare these days. The player will get three lives, though.

Hellspider is one of my favorite games, despite its flaws, and I am very excited to see that you're making this.

Thanks!

And thanks to everyone for the feedback, I appreciate it! Now I need to go and do some more coding... must fight the urge to play my new favourite game Deadly Premonition instead.
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linley
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« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2011, 05:03:03 AM »

Progress update:

I mentioned above that my original plan for warship movement was to just have big groups of them pop on to the battlefield then move towards and past each other. Only fighters, and maybe some larger fighter-like craft, would have any freedom of movement.

Well, that obviously wasn't good enough so I've written a level scripting system to make missions more interesting. I've never coded anything like this before (the most complex AI routines in my games, even in Crawl, haven't been much more than "move towards player") and I was expecting it to be pretty hard, but it wasn't too bad.

The system allows ships to be created individually or in groups. They can be given instructions like move to x/y, change formation, follow another group, wait around etc. based on a range of conditions like location, time passed, the survival or destruction of particular ships etc. Certain events can also cause friendly warships to send messages to the player. Nothing special really, but I'm a little bit proud of it.

One thing I'll have to keep in mind is making sure that missions don't get too linear. The system is flexible and potentially allows missions to play out quite differently each time you try them, but designing each mission to create an interestingly branching tree of possibilities will be a lot of work. Partly this is because there will be very few ways to fail a mission completely - probably just the player losing all lives or all friendly warships being destroyed - so each script will have to accommodate everything from total success to near-total defeat. This will feed in to the overall mission structure, which I haven't started working on yet and will explain in a later post.

I've also designed an enemy carrier, but I'm not quite happy with how it looks yet. I might post some pictures when I have a finished bitmap.
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BlueSweatshirt
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« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2011, 10:29:22 AM »

You're awesome.  Kiss

So am I getting the hint that this game is going to have a story?
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evktalo
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« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2011, 04:56:02 AM »

Sounds.. and looks great! I'm very happy that you're doing a new game. I enjoyed Transdimensional Hellspider a lot, it was somewhat hard to get into, but I did play it until I won. Albeit the dive-bombing weapon turned out to be more effective than I thought it was supposed to. Anyway, I love the idea and scope of this, and am looking forward to play it!

--Eino
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linley
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« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2011, 04:45:19 AM »

As promised, the carrier:



It spits smaller ships out of its front. It's just a light carrier, though, so it's not too dangerous by itself. One of its roles will be to hang around in groups over the other side of the battlefield, occasionally releasing squadrons of bombers to try to taunt you into spending time travelling to attack it. I think later in the game there'll be much fatter carriers that will be nasty on their own.

So am I getting the hint that this game is going to have a story?

Here's the grand plan: there will be a tree of missions which starts as a single trunk (stage 1) and splits numerous times. Your fleet's performance in each mission, or maybe group of missions, will determine whether you go towards the good side of the tree and ultimate victory or the bad side of the tree and failure and defeat.

There'll be a dynamic difficulty aspect to this: missions on the good side will be much harder. I don't generally like dynamic difficulty because it tends to punish skilled play and encourage the player to deliberately fail in ways that allow progression but reduce difficulty, but Angry Moth will reward good players with a much happier story and a variety of enemies and allies that you won't meet on the less happy part of the tree.

An example of how it will work would be a mission involving an attack on an enemy base. If you fail to destroy it and are forced to retreat, your next mission will be facing a desperate counterattack where you have the advantage of static defences. If you destroy the base, your next mission will push into enemy territory where you'll face sterner resistance. Because I'm a bad person, there will be perma-death.

This seems like an obvious way to do dynamic difficulty, but I'm having trouble thinking of games that do this. Can anyone think of any?

(as for the actual content of the story... I'm still working that out)

Anyway, now that I've done (most of) the level scripting code and have a decent variety of enemies, my next job is putting it together into a single-mission demo so I can get feedback on the basic mechanics of the game. That might be a few weeks or months away, but it's coming!

I enjoyed Transdimensional Hellspider a lot, it was somewhat hard to get into, but I did play it until I won.

Heh. Nice work! I've never won it without using debugging code. I'm just not good enough.
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BlueSweatshirt
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« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2011, 05:05:16 PM »

To this day I've never beat and more than the... 10th Hellspider. That game is punishing, but still super enjoyable to play.

Anyway,
I seriously can't wait to play that demo! I'll be sure to play it and drop you tons of feedback Smiley
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linley
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« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2011, 03:20:11 AM »

Apologies for the long delay between updates. I'm still working towards the demo, although I've been a bit lazy. Fortunately I've finished the game I was playing in my spare time (Samurai Warriors 2: Empires, which is surprisingly not bad) and started playing Too Human, which looks like it will be easy to resist.

Here's a summary of my progress since the last update:

  • the mission scripting system can handle much more complexity. Ships can group together, split up, change course, jump out etc based on a wide range of conditions. Scripting each mission is going to be a lot of work.
  • there is a mission briefing screen with its own set of scripts
  • the player leads a small squadron of other fighters and can issue a few commands - currently just "form up", "cover me", "attack my target" and "defend", which should be enough
  • enemy bullets will be blue while enemy ships will explode in a sort of purple colour so it should be easier to tell what's going to hurt you and what you can safely fly through; all friendly bullets, explosions and exhaust plumes will be reddish (I've had lots of comments about visual confusion in my previous games, which was mostly intentional for e.g. White Butterfly but doesn't fit so much with this game)
  • many of the graphics have been redrawn; some of them just didn't look right.

Demo soon!
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Halcyon
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« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2011, 12:35:06 AM »

Great, sounds like it is really coming along now, I am looking forward to the demo. Any possible screenshots or maybe even videos to show until then?  Smiley
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evktalo
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« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2011, 11:19:12 AM »

Great to see an update since I last checked; looking forward to the demo!

--Eino
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linley
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« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2011, 10:13:59 PM »

Sorry for the lapse in updates, everyone. I spent a couple of weekends interstate and had various other things to do, so I haven't been able to do as much work on Angry Moth as I'd planned.

But the demo is almost ready - just a bit of fine-tuning to go. To make up for not posting anything for so long, I bought Fraps so I could make a video of the whole of stage 1 of the demo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VibgHnbA-1Y

This is a fairly simple stage where you help a small group of ships chase down some other ships - demo stage 2 is a lot more complicated. As you can see, I'm not very good at using the torpedo (about half my shots either miss completely or explode prematurely) but I still win in the end.
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Helmeted
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« Reply #26 on: April 26, 2011, 04:45:17 AM »

Cool. I like the pre mission briefing. The mission itself, too, of course, but I think things like the briefing really add to immersion.
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BlueSweatshirt
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« Reply #27 on: April 26, 2011, 03:25:18 PM »

I saw this before I went to sleep last night, but I was way too tired to write a coherent post. So here I go now.  Smiley

Like Helmeted, I loved the pre-mission briefing. It was an epic mood-setter for me with how you did it, I was like "oh my god I'm going on a fucking space mission this is so cool." So kudos on pulling that one off!

The actual gameplay looks insane and chaotic to the max. I really like what I see! Everything I see looks like exactly what I'd imagine a real space battle to look like. Your HUD/presentation looks awesome as well.

I can't wait to dig my fangs into this.  Kiss
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linley
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« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2011, 05:09:35 AM »

The mission briefings represent some of the many hours I spent playing X-Wing in the '90s, although Angry Moth is weakened by a lack of pixellated Admiral Ackbar.
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linley
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« Reply #29 on: May 04, 2011, 07:23:15 AM »

Okay, it's finally here: the demo.  Beer!

Download a zip for Windows from:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/angrymoth/files/
Source is there as well. Should compile on anything that runs Allegro.

Feedback would be much appreciated. Especially criticism!

If you need to be reminded of what it looks like, or if you were attracted to this thread by the shiny new "demo" in the title and have no idea what's going on, here's the video I posted a few days ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VibgHnbA-1Y

And here's a screenshot:


and another one:



Now for what's in it:
Smiley two levels - one fairly straightforward, one quite difficult (but possible)
Smiley splitscreen two-player. Each player gets only one secondary weapon. I haven't tested this properly so I'd appreciate feedback on this mode in particular
Smiley fun

Known issues:
Lips Sealed no music yet
Lips Sealed the sound in general is not so great
Lips Sealed the "mission data" menu option doesn't do anything
Lips Sealed sometimes fighters fly off into the distance if there's nothing for them to do (this is fixable but fixing it properly will require a bit of work)
Lips Sealed there is theoretical support for dual-stick analogue controllers (with the second stick controlling slide), but the only one I've tested this on (an Xbox 360 controller) doesn't work - Allegro appears to be unable to detect the second stick and does something strange with the triggers. It does work as an ordinary single-stick controller, though. I suggest mapping slide to the bumpers, using the "set controls" thing in the game

Some hints:
Smiley use slide a lot!
Smiley support your fleet. You need each other
Smiley generally, shields go down when their energy is reduced to zero and come back up when it's recharged to about 1/4 to 1/3
Smiley the targetting display down the bottom left indicates which part of a warship has the shield generator
Smiley don't forget to use the command button to tell your little squadron (of two) what to do. You can get them to attack your target, cover you (the default), form up or go back and defend the fleet
Smiley hold the targetting key/button for a second to switch from manual targetting to automatic and back again

Good luck!
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