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[eva_]

this is all jason rohrers fault!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Breadcultist]

has anyone on this forum ever drawn a sprite by hand? No, your tablet does not count

Don't you know anything about the indie scene? Pixel art is one of the Five Pillars.

[Hangedman]

All those beholden to the icy clam:

You have said nothing, contributed nothing, and no one cares about your childish ad hominems and your total misunderstanding of what game making entails.

When you're done, we can talk.
Until then, good luck getting a rise out of people who know you are wrong.

[C.A. Silbereisen]

And yeah, attacking the indie community based on pixel art... lol.

[Kramlack]

Going to say it again because I feel it's necessary.

Can we please ignore this icyclam guy? He's obviously just trollin' around, and giving him attention is just adding fuel to the fire.

I'm all for having good in depth discussions, but when you're talking to someone who just sticks their fingers in their ears and goes la-la-la-la, I hardly call that a discussion. Every time I come to this thread, it's just going in circles.

I have a headache now.

[Melly]

I could easily replace Japan with Derek Yu and it would apply to 99% of this forum.

Your skills in generalizing several hundreds of active users with differing tastes into a single mold that allows you to shackly make an angry comeback are laudable.

You had fun writing that post, haven't you?

For the record, your assumption is also innacurate. I know plenty of people here that aren't big fans of Aquaria, myself included. The game takes too long to pick up its pace for my liking, and I'm not a fan of the overly wordy monologues.

[Derek]

You have said nothing, contributed nothing, and no one cares about your childish ad hominems and your total misunderstanding of what game making entails.

Hey guys... bad attitude, honestly. I've read through their posts and they seem pretty straightforward. If there's a misunderstanding, explain. Period.

[C.A. Silbereisen]

I'm actually rather enjoying this at the moment. Icycalm's lapdogs don't realize they're making themselves look like complete tools and no one's probably taking them seriously at this point.

You guys aren't doing Icycalm or insomnia.ac any favors.

[quash]

This has absolutely nothing to do with supreme programming prowess. Just like the other Icycalm mouthpieces in this thread, you're not only completely talking out of your ass, you're also retarded enough to dispute claims based on the knowledge and experience of people who actually know how to do what you're talking about.

I'm currently feeling like a guitarist being lectured about guitar techniques by a Rockband player.

Who cares about craftsmanship when it has absolutely no bearing on the final product, especially if you have no idea how to judge said craftsmanship?

?

I feel like someone forgot to take his meds this morning and/or suffers from short term memory loss. I don't see anyone here discussing "programming prowess", but I do see you saying that "craftsmanship has no bearing on the final product". I guess the difference between a Ford Pinto and a Porsche 911 is purely aesthetic? Except even by that definition, there's still a mechanical difference between the two.

And since you are so keen on flaunting your own "programming prowess", please, point me in the direction of your credentials or any games you've made. Don't worry, I've already been banned from insomnia, so you won't see a review on the front page.

[Pixelthief]

Excuse me, but what are you people supposed to be arguing about? This isn't even tangential, this is completely removed from reality

[C.A. Silbereisen]

You have said nothing, contributed nothing, and no one cares about your childish ad hominems and your total misunderstanding of what game making entails.

Hey guys... bad attitude, honestly. I've read through their posts and they seem pretty straightforward. If there's a misunderstanding, explain. Period.

Hey guys... bad attitude, honestly. I've read through their posts and they seem pretty straightforward. If there's a misunderstanding, explain. Period.

There are several posts trying to explain these misunderstandings (including one written by me), but they'd rather listen to an armchair critic who doesn't know what he's talking about.

[Hangedman]

Derek, i'm sorry for the attitude, but the reason why I said that is because I'm tired.
Time and again I've tried to engage with people who were being uncivil, being as civil and charitable as I can. I don't feel like picking apart the silliness any more. There is little chance of any kind of even discussion, and even if such discussion is started it will never remain stable for long.

In the immortal words of fake Gary Coleman: "It gets old."

[Breadcultist]

I'm just posting what I think. And I think Icy just wrote some great works. I represent nobody but myself, really.

I think some of you are attributing to Icy some things he hasn't said. Some nonsense about programming you've taken from animu witches.

I don't think he represents anyone else either.

I think this discussion has been most productive when it turned most adversarial.

[Melly]

Excuse me, but what are you people supposed to be arguing about? This isn't even tangential, this is completely removed from reality

Well, Mr. quash here is apparently of the belief that the more insulting and unpleasant he is to other people, the more intelligent he'll sound. Maybe that's a skill Icycalm taught him.

It reminds me a bit of how some animals act when cornered.

[quash]

Well, Mr. quash here is apparently of the belief that the more insulting and unpleasant he is to other people, the more intelligent he'll sound. Maybe that's a skill Icycalm taught him.

I insult to make my posts more fun to read for those who aren't being attacked by it (as those who are being attacked usually aren't going to bother reading it anyways). As for icycalm, the only interaction I've ever had with him was when he banned me from his forum within my first two posts.

It reminds me a bit of how some animals act when cornered.

You remind me of a passive aggressive loser; the kind that moderates most forums.

[C.A. Silbereisen]

I do see you saying that "craftsmanship has no bearing on the final product". I guess the difference between a Ford Pinto and a Porsche 911 is purely aesthetic? Except even by that definition, there's still a mechanical difference between the two.

Because I didn't say that. I said "programming is a type of craftsmanship that often has no bearing on the final product". The "craftsmanship" you are talking about is plain old design.

And since you are so keen on flaunting your own "programming prowess", please, point me in the direction of your credentials or any games you've made.

I'm not. I'm a horrible programmer and none of the games I made up to this point are worth noting because I make them for my own enjoyment (skim through my post history if you want to see). But the difference between you and me (and most other people on this thread) is this: Unlike you, I have a basic understanding of how to make games and what goes into making them as well as practical experience and from that I know you are making wrong assumptions about game development. I don't claim to be some kind of infallible expert on any of this, but I'm still more knowledgeable than someone who hasn't done anything at all.

[NotHere]

Mars Matrix is very unique and interestesting, but built upon the framework laid by Giga Wing.

You say that as if it's a bad thing. All creative work is derivative you twit, and if Mars Matrix is an improvement upon an already great game, what reason is there to hold that against it? It isn't "innovative" enough for the same people who hail Braid and Cave Story as masterpieces?

You say this, and then have this response:

Really, this just comes across as ridiculous Japan worship.

More like well deserved praise. That Hydorah game doesn't improve the horizontal shooting formula as well as Sol Feace (made in 1994, mind you) from what I saw in that trailer (though I will say it shows promise to be perhaps the first Western indie game I can stand to play through, so maybe I'll give it a try sometime).

If you want to point out hypocrisy, it might work a little better if you were also legit =\ Why do you or Dragonmaw (or anime witches lol as he started this) have the ability to decide the actual weight that any improvements give? Or actually, why does that matter?

but criticizing Hydorah for not innovating enough when only one of the games you listed was "innovative" is baffling.

I like how you put innovative in quotes, as if it is a stupid and largely misused word (which it is), and yet you are seriously, unironically, using it against that guy.

So you would chastise Dragonmaw's use of innovative but not anime witch's? Double standards don't really help your argument much either.

This is quite possibly the saddest thing I've read in this thread so far.

Someone like you would become sad at the notion of someone loving video games. I spent $200 on my HRAP2 SA back in 2009 so I could play two games that cost me $20 each and a bunch of games I burned; I plan on spending much more to obtain the boards and cabinets for some of these games as well. If this sounds ridiculous to you, I'm afraid you don't love video games as much as you think you do.

That's cool, but I think Dragonmaw's response was for this:

As to whether I play "indie" games, that's up to your definition. If your definition, like Paul's, is ever-expanding to suit the needs of argument, my second favorite game series of all time is "indie" -- Melty Blood. Altogether, my enthusiasm for the game has cost me enough money to buy a car, a few years of my life, and several points off my GPA when I graduated from college.

Did your investment into this hobby not only cost a startlingly large sum of money, but also damage your education as well? I really like games too, but I think drawing a line somewhere is necessary for all things in life. I don't know what anime witch's circumstances are like presently, so perhaps he's doing ok (which would mean he managed his time and money just fine despite the lavishness), but more information is necessary in this case.

[deathtotheweird]

I don't think it's possible for you to get any more boring than you actually are right now.

I don't join the forums you go on and start arguing up a storm. Why? I don't give a shit. Why do you care so much that you feel the need to sign up on the forum and argue with us? It's pointless, stop it. Go fuck off and do what you enjoy rather than coming here and shitting on what we enjoy.

This thread was for us to discuss the rohrer/icycalm thing and not for icycalm's fanbase to come here and argue all day long about programming (which none of you know dick about).

[C.A. Silbereisen]

I think some of you are attributing to Icy some things he hasn't said. Some nonsense about programming you've taken from animu witches.

The most important thing to take away from all of this (and there are a shitload of important things to take away...) is when he says in the third video, about the creation of Doom, that "When we got together, we were experts", i.e. a group of people each of whom, by the time they got together to create their masterpiece, had been programming for 14 years straight, and were at the cutting edge of their craft. Note moreover, throught the entire series of videos, how strong and effusive Romero's enthusiasm for gaming, for simply PLAYING games is, both points of which are entirely antithetical to the attitude of the fagots: who are so crap at programming that if told to make their own engines they wouldn't know where to start, and who, as they repeat again and again, simply HATE playing games.

The funny thing is how the fags are all the while damning themselves with everything they say, without even realizing it. Rohrer downright SAYS that the reason he stopped trying to make 3D games was because HE COULDN'T FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE THEM, so he "scaled back" (his own words) to bungling primitive 2D genres. Another reason was that, in order to make something as complex as a 3D game, you are more or less forced to work with other people, and since, like all artfagots, Rohrer is an insufferably pretentious prick that no one could possibly put up with for any length of time, any complicated (let alone cutting-edge) game development is simply out of the question for him. Hence why he turned to "messages".

[Melly]

I insult to make my posts more fun to read for those who aren't being attacked by it (as those who are being attacked usually aren't going to bother reading it anyways).

Friendly advice, it also makes you sound quite foolish and like an attention whore. I'm sure you wouldn't want people to think of you that way.

You remind me of a passive aggressive loser; the kind that moderates most forums.

But I'm not being passive aggressive. That's really what you reminded me of, I'm just being honest. I apologize if it sounded a little cryptic for you.

From that statement it seems you don't like forum moderators much. I imagine you had a couple of issues with them in the past? It wouldn't be too surprising with the behaviour you're showing us right now.