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[Dragonmaw]

The information P Diddy posted was a simple DNS look-up. Anyone can do it.

I know, but it still had no business being posted here. I don't care about Icycalm's address or phone number and neither should anyone else in this thread.

I wasn't disagreeing with that. If you notice, I was quoting milk. It was intended as a counter-point that P Diddy is a "ADD-riddled 4chan scriptkiddie" for... doing a DNS look-up. Something which anybody can do that requires no scripts and is supported by the basic framework of the internet. While I don't like P Diddy and think he's kind of an idiot, he didn't do anything particularly special or even unusual.

I totally concur that P Diddy posting Icycalm's dox here is completely out of line. The only time dox should be published is if the person in question is the one publishing their own dox.

[Alex May]

You're all a bunch of useless dorks wallowing in pointlessness.

[Cow]

does anybody on here like mars volta?

I do.

[C.A. Sinner]

I think I'm going to spend the next few hours counting how many times people have posted in this thread just to tell everyone how much it sucks and making one of those Excel pie chart thingies.

[Alex May]

do it, you'd probably be spending your time better than posting earnestly in this thread

[Paul Eres]

a lot of things are pointless. some seem to have the impression that those of us posting in this thread don't realize it's pointless, but of course we do. so is playing games. so is listening to music. so is looking at the clouds and finding shapes. so is watching youtube, or reading facebook. just because something doesn't lead anywhere doesn't mean it shouldn't be done for other reasons (relaxation, for instance, or mental exercise)

[C.A. Sinner]

do it, you'd probably be spending your time better than posting earnestly in this thread

I agree. I mean how dare people discuss videogames on a videogame forum? What a bunch of dorks lol

[Alex May]

Are you discussing video games or are you just getting repeatedly trolled by icycalm and his sycophantic following? seems like the latter

[Paul Eres]

i don't see much of a difference between what icycalm's followers are doing (calling us retards for liking or making indie games) and what the people posting in the thread to tell others not to post in the thread are doing (calling us retards for posting in the thread) -- both are looking down at other people for what they are doing and feeling better about themselves by pointing out that they don't do that thing. it's the same basic instinct, put other people down to feel better about yourself (no offense of course, i do the same thing sometimes in other contexts, i'm just pointing out that the same motivation causes both behaviors).

[Alex May]

Yeah, my initial post is better worded as "you could be spending your time better IMO".

[C.A. Sinner]

Also between all the drama that has erupted here, we've had some of the most interesting discussions on games and game design on TIGS ever, or at least more interesting than all the threads in the Design subforum of the last 6 months or so combined. The Icy "followers" that aren't here simply to "troll" are actually adding a lot to it. It's good to have people with radically opposing viewpoints participate in a discussion so long as they're willing to actually discuss their views instead of putting the other side down. If it wasn't for people like Breadcultist, oewarj, etc. this entire thread would be a circlejerk with a bunch of people going on about how "horrible" Icycalm is. I don't see how that'd be any "better" or more "useful" than what we have now.

[dstopia]

Hi, first of all I just want to say I'm not icycalm and I'm far from being him. I don't have an account on his forums, I'm just a regular reader of insomnia.

I know icy using sockpuppet accounts to take the piss at you guys doesn't really sound flattering, but really, as far as I can understand the guy, he's just having fun at your expense. The fact that absolutely none of you even attempted to debunk the real argument in his Genealogy, and preferred instead to focus on stupid details like icy's music examples and his ignorance of "prog rock" makes it even funnier and makes his argument the more correct and strong.

And to DavidCaruso, the only one who attempted something that can be considered to be close to an argumentative criticism of icy's article: You are getting stuck up on details. Icy doesn't care about whatever you guys classify as "indie". In fact, he doesn't care about the "indie" label at all. All he cares about is the quality of the games. "Indie", "doujin", "professional", etc, are all just labels that go beyond (i.e., "trascend") the games themselves. One should not care about who developed Braid in order to criticize it. One should care only about the object, the game itself. The fact that most "indie" games are complete and utter trash that ignore 30 years of mechanical progress in the videogame artform is enough for icy to call most indie games trash, and rightfully so. There will always be exceptions: that's why they're called exceptions.

[C.A. Sinner]

I know icy using sockpuppet accounts to take the piss at you guys doesn't really sound flattering, but really, as far as I can understand the guy, he's just having fun at your expense.

If guitar_failure really was his sockpuppet, I'd say we had more fun at his expense than vice versa.

The fact that absolutely none of you even attempted to debunk the real argument in his Genealogy

I can only speak for myself here, but take a wild guess as to why that is.

Also, you're saying his argument amounts to "most indie games suck"?

[dstopia]

If guitar_failure really was his sockpuppet, I'd say we had more fun at his expense than vice versa.

That we can't know for sure. He might have been having a great time for all you know.

I can only speak for myself here, but take a wild guess as to why that is.

Because you're incapable of coming up with a way of countering the argument? You look like you would LOVE to find a way to shut him up.

[C.A. Sinner]

Because you're incapable of coming up with a way of countering the argument? You look like you would LOVE to find a way to shut him up.

No. The answer is pretty obvious actually. I've posted it several times in this thread already (most explicitly when replying to P Diddy) but people always seem to ignore it.