eva
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« Reply #30 on: January 26, 2011, 11:52:36 AM » |
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i don think the 1st or 5th one is required
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Fallsburg
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« Reply #31 on: January 26, 2011, 12:00:12 PM » |
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i don think the 1st or 5th one is required
In that case a game like Zelda:OoT would be a metroidvania, which just seems wrong. I'd say the first is necessary, but the fifth isn't. |
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Paul Eres
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« Reply #32 on: January 26, 2011, 12:29:02 PM » |
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zeldalikes are metroidvanias (as i mentioned earlier in this thread), the only difference is perspective
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Fallsburg
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« Reply #33 on: January 26, 2011, 12:36:19 PM » |
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zeldalikes are metroidvanias (as i mentioned earlier in this thread), the only difference is perspective
But why doesn't perspective matter? Why is the set of zeldalikes a proper subset of the set of metroidvanias? I would think that the term metroidvania implies 2d side-on perspective (since both metroid and castlevanias use this view). |
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Paul Eres
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« Reply #34 on: January 26, 2011, 01:23:13 PM » |
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it does matter, which is why they have two different names. but they basically play identically except for perspective, so practically speaking they're the same genre in different views. metroid was basically 'zelda applied to platformers, in space'.
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Fallsburg
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« Reply #35 on: January 26, 2011, 01:35:12 PM » |
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So you are saying that metroidvanias are zeldalikes and zeldalikes are metroidvanias? If that is what you are saying, then I guess I can get behind it.
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Brother Android
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« Reply #36 on: January 26, 2011, 01:43:05 PM » |
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METROIDVANIA CHECKLIST - 2D Platformer.
- Non-linear level structure with backtracking, linear levels with branching paths and the like don't count.
- Levels are designed as a "world" rather than as a number of stages played in a strict order.
- World may be split up into several large areas, possibly even connected by a central "hub" (a la Metroid Fusion).
- Levels are also split up into individual "rooms" or "screens".
- Permanent upgrades or items for the player character can be found.
- Some upgrades/items unlock new paths.
I kind of disagree. I don't think levels need to be split into rooms, and I don't really think there need to be upgrades, either. I think it is sort of a matter of the spirit of the game, which is one of internally consistent rules and a lack of contrived barriers (such as dividing a game into official levels, blocking off paths where it seems like the player should be able to go). It's a game that takes place in a world rather than a series of areas, and that, to a large extent anyway, lets you traverse that world as you please. I kind of think the "platformer" aspect is a necessary part of it though... I don't think Morrowind is a Metroidvania, even though it has the spirit of one. I'd say that being a 2D platformer is actually what separates a Metroidvania from simply a nonlinear adventure game but whatever semantics oh man |
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C.A. Sinner
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« Reply #37 on: January 26, 2011, 02:23:18 PM » |
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i don think the 1st or 5th one is required
#5: Probably. I think I was a bit too hasty with my definition. #1 is a matter of perspective. Depends on whether you Metrodvanias see as being tied to 2D platformers or as a type of "structure" that can be applied to a variety of core gameplays. I'm not entirely decided on this TBH. @Brother Android: I think upgrades and finding items to unlock new paths are the core of the genre. Not every exploration platformer or "world-based" platformer is a Metroidvania. Same is true for RPGs. Metroidvanias aren't really "open world" in that way. The King's Field series probably comes closest. |
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MaloEspada
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« Reply #38 on: January 26, 2011, 02:33:40 PM » |
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#1 and #5 are not required so much
reasons for 1: pretty much play zelda 1 and you'll understand
reasons for 5: imagine if a metroidvania didn't have the room boundaries, but rather was a long continuous world. it would still be an exploration game, with all its characteristics. the difference is that you wouldnt get the "room transition" effect when you hit a boundary of a room.
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Gimym TILBERT
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« Reply #39 on: January 28, 2011, 11:33:39 PM » |
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If zelda is a metroidvania ... Then there is no point making a difference between halo 3, gears of war and megaman 2, they are all shooter!  Traditionally, perspective matter in games genre so far. + platformer imply an interplay with gravity that top down game don't have, it doesn't play the same. |
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eva
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« Reply #40 on: January 30, 2011, 01:59:46 AM » |
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If zelda is a metroidvania ... Then there is no point making a difference between halo 3, gears of war and megaman 2, they are all shooter! Traditionally, perspective matter in games genre so far. + platformer imply an interplay with gravity that top down game don't have, it doesn't play the same. the difference between halo 3, gears of war, and megaman 2 is more than just perspective but hey it's not like an idiot like you would know the only genres that are limited to a perspective are genres that state it (first person shooter, sidescrollers) etc. there are top down perspective games with platforming -- the only reason to associate metroidvania with 2d sidescrollers is most of them happen to be sidescrollers. a lot of rpgs are top-down but its not a requirement for an rpg. also 3d metroid games exist and there is really no point in making another genre called "3d metroidvanias" |
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J-Snake
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« Reply #41 on: January 30, 2011, 06:36:14 AM » |
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If zelda is a metroidvania ... Then there is no point making a difference between halo 3, gears of war and megaman 2, they are all shooter! There is a point in making a difference between Metroid-Games. |
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Gimym TILBERT
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« Reply #42 on: January 30, 2011, 08:57:56 AM » |
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If zelda is a metroidvania ... Then there is no point making a difference between halo 3, gears of war and megaman 2, they are all shooter! Traditionally, perspective matter in games genre so far. + platformer imply an interplay with gravity that top down game don't have, it doesn't play the same. the only genres that are limited to a perspective are genres that state it (first person shooter, sidescrollers) etc. there are top down perspective games with platforming -- the only reason to associate metroidvania with 2d sidescrollers is most of them happen to be sidescrollers. a lot of rpgs are top-down but its not a requirement for an rpg. also 3d metroid games exist and there is really no point in making another genre called "3d metroidvanias"
Except that metroidvanis is a term to differentiate "find the exit" side scroller to "network layout" sidescroller. The difference with top down game is that gravity is still a big part of the experience, even if top down have some platforming element (heck even fps can have platforming element) this is not generally the core interaction with the game. It's important because positioning totally affect the gameplay. If you don't like term just propose a new one? something that is not a reference to king of the genre. Like fps have move from doom/quake like, it maybe time to move metroidvania to something else (exploration platformer?)? I guess metroidvania will stick by pure convenience of the term |
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MaloEspada
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« Reply #43 on: January 30, 2011, 09:27:02 AM » |
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i dont think you read my post very well, timmy
i'll make it clear it's not any "zelda",
it's
ZELDA 1
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C.A. Sinner
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« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2011, 10:03:09 AM » |
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I don't see how Zelda 1 would be more of a "Metroidvania" than other Zeldas if it was (which it isn't).
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