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[mcc]

PHP!!!!!!!!!! 

PHP

[increpare]

Apple released XCode 4 on my birthday! Off to the happy programer roEXCEPT WAIT NO.

I'm going to add this to my list of reasons to not use xcode again if possible.

[mcc]

Apple released XCode 4 on my birthday! Off to the happy programer roEXCEPT WAIT NO.

I'm going to add this to my list of reasons to not use xcode again if possible.

I was actually pretty serious about that open source xcodebuild thing :O

[lapsus]

"registered iPhone developers can continue to just download a free dmg"

the amount i spent on a macbook and to be a regged ios-dev just to be able to try some iphone dev felt pretty damn far from free

but yeah, i totally understand you, what a fantastically stupid move, don't they want people to develop for the osx platform? have they motivated why?

[mcc]

"registered iPhone developers can continue to just download a free dmg"

the amount i spent on a macbook and to be a regged ios-dev just to be able to try some iphone dev felt pretty damn far from free

but yeah, i totally understand you, what a fantastically stupid move, don't they want people to develop for the osx platform? have they motivated why?

Well right but again the problem isn't $5 (seriously, $5, who cares) the problem is that downloading a dmg is a fundamentally convenient way to get XCode+gcc, while (1)register(2)give a credit card number/itunes account(3)connect to the mac app store and (4)download all 4.3GB of the xcode package [assuming I'm understanding correctly how the process works] is fundamentally hideously inconvenient and, in some pathological cases, may be impossible. If I have downloaded a dmg I can keep 4-5 backup copies of old versions. I can put it on a central file server and download it to the 2-4 macs scattered around the house or 20 macs at work. I can ssh it from my mini to my laptop, etc... in short I can do the things that one expects to be able to do with developer tools. Now of course I *DID* download a dmg, just now, but then I get to the question of the macs at work. Can I just, like, upload the copy I downloaded via my personal developer account to my work laptop? What about a fileserver at work? Am I violating Apple license agreements by doing so? Why am I suddenly having to worry about violating license agreements when copying around GCC?

[lapsus]

good question about the license and my point was (as well as yours i guess) that as soon as you introduce some kind of payment it makes ppl that decides what platform they will work on less likely to pick that one, however small it may be.

[mcc]

Yeah, I'm agreeing (just ranting)

[increpare]

[ I imagine in the future that it will be easier for most people to buy stuff on the app store than log in to apple developer centre/&c. ]

[lapsus]

while we are ranting, something that makes me really fucking grumpy is the whole certificate process when developing for iphone. its like 50 steps and take ages to do right and one step didnt work in chrome ( needed to use safari :/ ) and that took a long time to realize.

considering how proud apple are of the usability of the OS they really like to make things difficult for developers.

... and now my certficate just ran out on my phone so i need to renew it, bah

[mcc]

[ I imagine in the future that it will be easier for most people to buy stuff on the app store than log in to apple developer centre/&c. ]

I imagine for many people the app store route is easier now. It certainly makes sense to have it as an option. I can even imagine Apple could put a free dmg on the website and a $5 version on the app store and some people would go with the $5 version just to not have to download huge dmgs every other month when Apple releases a new XCode version.

But in some cases it's just plain unworkable and these are the exact cases that tend to come up when you're, you know, developing...

while we are ranting, something that makes me really fucking grumpy is the whole certificate process when developing for iphone. its like 50 steps and take ages to do right and one step didnt work in chrome ( needed to use safari :/ ) and that took a long time to realize.

considering how proud apple are of the usability of the OS they really like to make things difficult for developers.

... and now my certficate just ran out on my phone so i need to renew it, bah

The cert process has gotten DRASTICALLY better over the last two years. I assume they'll continue improving it.

[xyz step] not working in Chrome sounds like something you could actually log to radar?

[st33d]

XCode was pretty much the last straw in a long line of crap text editor experiences on the mac.

Not being able to indent text is a small thing. But small things are deal breakers.

[increpare]

Not being able to indent text is a small thing. But small things are deal breakers.

Christ, you're giving me flashbacks.

[lapsus]

The cert process has gotten DRASTICALLY better over the last two years. I assume they'll continue improving it.

ok, i cant imagine how bad it was two years ago but that still doesnt make it fun to do now. anyway just ranting.

btw, radar? is that some kind of bugtracking system? i never been a mac guy so im not to familiar with the stuff they use.

[mcc]

ok, i cant imagine how bad it was two years ago

I don't think you really want to know 

btw, radar? is that some kind of bugtracking system? i never been a mac guy so im not to familiar with the stuff they use.

Yeah, http;//radar.apple.com/ . Sign in with your developer password. It's not a general bug tracking system, it's a bug tracking system for developer tools (tools, APIs, and developer previews) only. But your complaint is with a developer tool so hey perfect... I'm not as up on this stuff as I used to be so I'm not clear if this is still the best place to complain about this or if you should go to the forum but probably radar is more likely to get checked.

[Draknek]

At work I'm having to deal with the worst API imaginable. It's taken me days just to verify that what I need to do, it doesn't provide a method for.

[mcc]

Not being able to indent text is a small thing. But small things are deal breakers.

Ok, I was trying not to bite, but... I'll bite. What?

[increpare]

Not being able to indent text is a small thing. But small things are deal breakers.

Ok, I was trying not to bite, but... I'll bite. What?

You can't select a chunk of text and use tab to indent it at at once (it replaces it all with a single tab if you try), except via a context menu (possibly there's a way to hook that up to a shortcut, I can't remember).  I think there's an auto-indent command somewhere, though.

[st33d]

Auto indent auto fucks everything up.

You have to of made the project in XCode from scratch - you can't take files elsewhere and work on them. It's as bad as Flash Builder.

[increpare]

What problems have you had with project portability in flash builder?

[lapsus]

You can't select a chunk of text and use tab to indent it at at once (it replaces it all with a single tab if you try)

i make that mistake all the time deleting my code, that and shift+tab is crucial for working fast
also, on swedish layout the { and } are in really bad spots, but guess i should stop being lazy and figure out how to change the layout to english for xcode only; since i assume that is possible?