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November 23, 2014, 10:47:20 AM
TIGSource ForumsCommunityCompetitionsVersus (Moderator: Melly)Railroad Duel [FINISHED]
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mike_st
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« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2011, 04:16:30 PM »

I hoped to have a playable version today but I did'n make it. Still a few things remain to be done like victory conditions and explosion effects. I was thinking about pulling all nighter today but its 1:16AM and I'm so tired I can barely put two lines of code together.
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Ashkin
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« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2011, 08:56:49 PM »

This looks very promising!
Maybe you should have the trains able to interact with the track more- for example, have splits in the track so, while fighting the other train, you have to flip a switch to go one way or the other. Hazards and that sort of thing.
Then you could create multiple arenas for variety, if you have the time.
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mike_st
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« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2011, 02:23:17 AM »

This looks very promising!
Maybe you should have the trains able to interact with the track more- for example, have splits in the track so, while fighting the other train, you have to flip a switch to go one way or the other. Hazards and that sort of thing.
Then you could create multiple arenas for variety, if you have the time.

These are good ideas and I have many others on how to expand this project but I won't be able to make it for the compo. Right now I'm just striving to deliver a playable game. Curse my bad time management...
Anyway I will continue development after the compo, first thing being general refactoring of the code.
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mike_st
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« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2011, 08:42:12 AM »

It's getting intense...





Argh! still so much to do and so little time.

I'm getting rid of the "experience points" for the sake of having this finished in time.

gameplay is still buggy and not balanced well, I also get occasional crashes. I'm working to fix those issues first. Also a few minor yet important things remain to be done.
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mike_st
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« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2011, 08:59:51 PM »

update on the first page!
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mike_st
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« Reply #25 on: March 03, 2011, 12:00:22 AM »

Added standalone Windows exe on the first post. (requires flash player 9+)
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« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2011, 12:10:35 PM »

AVG is complaining about trojan "Dropper.Generic2.CLVG"... anyone else getting this? Sad
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« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2011, 04:11:26 AM »

not tried it yet but the screenshots look super cool!
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Fifth
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« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2011, 01:45:22 PM »

Tried it with a friend.
As the bottom player, I would have liked the train car status thingy to have been reversed, so that the damage icons actually align with the cars.  Having to judge backwards which ones to replace is a little difficult in such a short time.

This gives the top played a bit of an advantage.
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mike_st
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« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2011, 03:10:15 PM »

Tried it with a friend.
As the bottom player, I would have liked the train car status thingy to have been reversed, so that the damage icons actually align with the cars.  Having to judge backwards which ones to replace is a little difficult in such a short time.

This gives the top played a bit of an advantage.
Thank you for pointing this out! I will fix this tommorow (I need to get some sleep first Yawn)

Quote from: Fifth
AVG is complaining about trojan "Dropper.Generic2.CLVG"... anyone else getting this?
Hmmm... Kaspersky is not showing anything. Please disable heuristic detection and check again. Hopefully it's a false positive Concerned

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« Reply #30 on: March 19, 2011, 01:59:21 AM »

Increpare, Terry Cavanagh, Sophie H and I tried this game for a while.

- Looks like it might be strategic, but we couldn't figure it out - something simpler would be nicer.  Couldn't remember all the unit types.
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« Reply #31 on: March 19, 2011, 09:42:48 AM »

As stated before, I love this game, and I can't wait to see what you do with it in the future. I played it with my brother, (to the Hydorah soundtrack, it was perfect, The "Prepare to Die" came up just as the two trains were rounding the corner :D ) He's pretty into tower defence games, and I like being able to make quick tactical decisions, and it suited us both well. Basically no feedback besides: "Like this, only moreso"
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« Reply #32 on: March 19, 2011, 01:23:24 PM »

This looks sweet, but the lack of sound was a bit of an atmosphere-killer Shrug
Love the gameplay concept and the artwork; please give it some bleepy-bloops!
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« Reply #33 on: March 22, 2011, 05:21:35 PM »

Played this the other day. We liked the visuals and effects and concept. It's almost there but could use a few tweaks.

Some information we needed:
What car is what?
What car does what?
Why should I pick some car over another?

We also didn't understand how the "in stock" system and selecting cars worked. Which car did I just put on my train? "Ok, up/down scrolls through them but if I want a specific car I can't tell how to choose it.. I have to just scroll until it appears on the train."

Rounds essentially boiled down to us trying random cars and not really getting a sense for how effective they were because they were combined with so many other cars. (Just as an extreme example, if it was just one car attacking another car we could tell what beat what through experimentation, but when the cars are not isolated it becomes too complex to approach with causal experimentation).

If we want to get abstract I'd say we had too many choices and no feedback on the results of those choices.

Some other thoughts:
Even just the simplest sound effects would make a huge difference.
Maybe an option for less types of cars and a shorter train. (Like, say, 3 of each). Extra cars and extra car slots could be added in later rounds, even.

I'm thinking of ways to simplify things, for starters, just to make the game easier to pick up. Players need a meaningful choices. Why should they pick one car over another? Each type car should have a unique and clear purpose.

As an experiment you could try having just 3 cars that are setup in a rock-paper-scissors type relationship. I'm not sure if this would work, though. It might boil down to who changes their train closest to the time running out.

It seems ultimately your choice in cars has to depend on your opponent's choices. Yet, each player can see what their opponent is going to use. So, is there anyway to prevent this kind of last-person-to-switch-wins mechanic? (This isn't bad -- it's done very well in TTTCW, for example. I just don't know if it's right for this game which seems better suited to a more strategic kind of play.)

What if each player somehow built their train secretly? So your choices become double-blind. This way, you're making choices based on what you think your opponent will pick. I think this is better, but I'm not sure. Implementing it would be an interesting problem. It's similar to picking a play in a multi-player football console game -- how do you prevent your opponent from seeing what you picked?

Ok, bear with me a moment. What if you can only pick new cars when there is an empty slot? So, at the beginning, each player builds a train from scratch. But then, when the trains come back from the battle, you can only put new cars in to replace dead cars. That way, if someone has a train that did well, they are at a disadvantage the next round because their opponent can counter it. Actually, this might just boil down to an endless back-and-forth. Well, it's just a brainstorm.

More crazy ideas:

Maybe you can place engines like any other car. The more you have, the faster you go (less damage you take but less damage you do). If you don't put any engines on then you don't go anywhere. Somehow you'd have to be penalized for not moving. Like maybe there's resources in the center and if you don't move you don't get any. Actually that gives me an idea. Maybe you have to build your train to balance collecting resources (like cars full of people that get out and collect rocks) vs offensive cars that attack your opponent's little collector people. I don't know, just an idea. The thing is to just keep it simple and clear. That's the key.

Ok, we went off on some strange and exciting tangents there but I think my main suggestions would be:
1. Some basic instructions.
2. Some basic sound effects.
3. Try reducing the types of cars.
4. Possibly also try reducing the length of the train.

They are just suggestions, though! You know what needs to be done much better than I do.

Isn't this fun?! We're really getting into the great nitty-gritty game design stuff here. I think it's really a novel concept with a lot of great potential. I hope you continue working on it! Good luck!
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mike_st
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« Reply #34 on: March 24, 2011, 04:59:05 AM »

First of all thanks everyone for feedback and sorry for replying so late again (this has something to do with heavy snowstorm resulting with me having no electricity at home for two days...)

Fixed player 1 status bar, it now matches the train when at station.

Actually I have a new version of this which will be released as soon as voting ends, can't show it to you till then because that, from what I understand, would be breaking the compo rules.

Increpare, Terry Cavanagh, Sophie H and I tried this game for a while.

- Looks like it might be strategic, but we couldn't figure it out - something simpler would be nicer.  Couldn't remember all the unit types.

I am aware that it needs unit statistics displayed when selected, that will be implemented in the future. Other than that game is imho pretty simple for a strategic game. I will simplify the interface to be easier to understand but it generally won't be less complex than it is.

As stated before, I love this game, and I can't wait to see what you do with it in the future. I played it with my brother, (to the Hydorah soundtrack, it was perfect, The "Prepare to Die" came up just as the two trains were rounding the corner :D ) He's pretty into tower defence games, and I like being able to make quick tactical decisions, and it suited us both well. Basically no feedback besides: "Like this, only moreso"

There already is more to it Wink just wait til the compo ends for the big update.

This looks sweet, but the lack of sound was a bit of an atmosphere-killer Shrug
Love the gameplay concept and the artwork; please give it some bleepy-bloops!

Don't worry there will be some bleepy-bloops Smiley

Played this the other day. We liked the visuals and effects and concept. It's almost there but could use a few tweaks.

Some information we needed:
What car is what?
What car does what?
Why should I pick some car over another?

Interface is being reworked with all those things in mind. There will be a display with all of the selected unit stats.

We also didn't understand how the "in stock" system and selecting cars worked. Which car did I just put on my train? "Ok, up/down scrolls through them but if I want a specific car I can't tell how to choose it.. I have to just scroll until it appears on the train."

That will be fixed with something like that : select place in train -> press a key -> select car from stock - > press a key - > its been replaced.

Some other thoughts:
Even just the simplest sound effects would make a huge difference.
Maybe an option for less types of cars and a shorter train. (Like, say, 3 of each). Extra cars and extra car slots could be added in later rounds, even.

There will be sound effects. I know it's important. I also explained why there aren't any in this version.

As for train length, it will be set in game options menu , adding more cars during gameplay can also be done.

I'm thinking of ways to simplify things, for starters, just to make the game easier to pick up. Players need a meaningful choices. Why should they pick one car over another? Each type car should have a unique and clear purpose.

As an experiment you could try having just 3 cars that are setup in a rock-paper-scissors type relationship. I'm not sure if this would work, though. It might boil down to who changes their train closest to the time running out.

It seems ultimately your choice in cars has to depend on your opponent's choices. Yet, each player can see what their opponent is going to use. So, is there anyway to prevent this kind of last-person-to-switch-wins mechanic? (This isn't bad -- it's done very well in TTTCW, for example. I just don't know if it's right for this game which seems better suited to a more strategic kind of play.)


Well as for rock-paper-scissor strategy I was thinking I can make each unit two-part where both chassis and turret are randomized. Turret will define its offensive capabilities and chassis will define its defense. ex. you can have flame-resistant machinegun or cannon-resistant missile launcher.


What if each player somehow built their train secretly? So your choices become double-blind. This way, you're making choices based on what you think your opponent will pick. I think this is better, but I'm not sure. Implementing it would be an interesting problem. It's similar to picking a play in a multi-player football console game -- how do you prevent your opponent from seeing what you picked?

To be honest right now I have no idea how to prevent one player from seeing what the other one is doing Undecided


Ok, bear with me a moment. What if you can only pick new cars when there is an empty slot? So, at the beginning, each player builds a train from scratch. But then, when the trains come back from the battle, you can only put new cars in to replace dead cars. That way, if someone has a train that did well, they are at a disadvantage the next round because their opponent can counter it. Actually, this might just boil down to an endless back-and-forth. Well, it's just a brainstorm.


So the player who barely survives one round will crush the other with ease the next round? I'm confused...


More crazy ideas:

Maybe you can place engines like any other car. The more you have, the faster you go (less damage you take but less damage you do). If you don't put any engines on then you don't go anywhere. Somehow you'd have to be penalized for not moving. Like maybe there's resources in the center and if you don't move you don't get any. Actually that gives me an idea. Maybe you have to build your train to balance collecting resources (like cars full of people that get out and collect rocks) vs offensive cars that attack your opponent's little collector people. I don't know, just an idea. The thing is to just keep it simple and clear. That's the key.

Interesting ideas though they'll be hard to code, it will require some refactoring. Not sure about resources, I'd rather avoid making gameplay too complex.


Ok, we went off on some strange and exciting tangents there but I think my main suggestions would be:
1. Some basic instructions.
2. Some basic sound effects.
3. Try reducing the types of cars.
4. Possibly also try reducing the length of the train.
1. I have tutorial + practice against AI planned.
2. Soon
3. Hmm there are basically 5 as of now - should there be like 3?. If I will use the idea of turret + chassis combinations 4 turrets x 4 chassis will give 16 combinations.
4. Train length, map and other things will be set in game options. You want a 3 car train? no problem Smiley
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« Reply #35 on: March 28, 2011, 02:40:42 PM »

Hey, glad to hear you're still working on this! The game has turned out great so far, I am excited to see where it will go.

Sorry for all the confusing stream-of-consciousness feedback  Durr...?. I still have a lot to learn about constructing feedback! Looks like I went a little overboard with the brainstorming. Oh well, better too many ideas than not enough!

I really like the idea of combining chassis and turrets. It could make for some really cool interplay. The whole thing with having less cars and less slots was to help make things a little easier to learn. But a well-made tutorial could address all that so don't worry about too many combinations. It could turn out really cool!

Sounds like you've got some great plans. Best of luck!
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mike_st
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« Reply #36 on: June 18, 2011, 04:27:34 AM »

I haven't been around lately but I'm back Smiley

Latest build available here:
http://gamejolt.com/online/games/strategy-sim/railroad-duel/4655/

I finally managed to get some sound effects in place also added a few features (as seen below) and changed control scheme. Now players use left/right arrow and enter (A/S and V for second player). First you choose a car from the train and press enter and then you choose the one from stock and press enter again and they switch places. These controls seem a bit more intuitive than the previous ones.





btw. I'm gonna take a brake from this game and work on something else for a while because I'm kind of stuck in one place, not sure where I want to go with this project anymore and I need my mind refreshed.
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