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[C.A. Sinner]

Killer7 is the Suda game you want to play.

[man of doom]

Well absolutely, Killer7 is ace, but my PS2 is in some mystery location within my house and I can't be bothered to find it.

[antymattar]

king arthurs gold.

[Nix]

I just finished Portal 2. It definitely felt like it had undergone the "AAA treatment", but I still enjoyed it. Getting some of the back-story on Aperture Science was fun, and all the psychotic joviality was still there (though perhaps a bit more cheesy and deflated). I'm not sure how I feel about GLaDOS' change in character, but it worked alright. The end gave me a pretty solid A Boy and His Dog vibe. In the end, I think I'll say the first holds a higher place in my heart, but I'm happy to have played both and Portal 2 was a lot of fun.

[Gimym TILBERT]

Replayed Majora and oot, now I'm bored with Oot dungeon, give me people! Majora's as the best character and there is a lot to do with them, dungeon are really there to have the zelda formula and I would scrap them happily with stupid heart collecthon. I don't feel the game like a rush sequel because despite reusing content (they were ask to) it completely turn upside down the formula and have so many new good idea. I can see the pacing could be better because of save system and repeating time (especially at the beginning since you don't know where to go or don't have enough object to interact).

If you like dungeon OOt is superior but if you like immersion majora rape it. I just can't go back to those vending machine of oot with empty town. Nor does I could with TP. Too bad wind waker jump the shark and explode thing even more (damn the see).

[Jesse]

Going through my Humble Indie Bundle 3 (and 2) games! Currently on Machinarium, which is freaking beautiful.

[C.A. Sinner]

If you like dungeon OOt is superior but if you like immersion majora rape it. I just can't go back to those vending machine of oot with empty town.

All lies and slander. OOT is a masterpiece, Majora is basically OOT 2: Electric Boogaloo. It IS a rushed sequel that a bunch of hipsters worship because OOT is "too mainstream" for them.

It's not just the dungeons btw, I think OOT has more personality and seems more carefully put together. MM replaces actual personality with the type of superficial "quirkiness" hipsters like so much. Still not as bad as Wind Waker though. Link might as well have worn thick-rimmed glasses in that.


i am 100% srs as always

[SirNiko]

I didn't get the impression that MM was rushed. For every recycled character or monster, there's at least two completely new ones. And even the ones they have recycled are used in different settings with different personalities.

MM had some of the best dungeons. The water-flowing puzzle in the Great Bay Temple was brilliantly integrated to use the whole dungeon, and the upside-down version of the Stone Tower Temple is really eerily beautiful as you gaze down at an open, endless sky with no ground in sight. The devs also very clearly accommodated the time-reset mechanic by designing the dungeons so that if you got the mid-dungeon treasure and reset time, you could solve almost all the reset puzzles instantly just by using the dungeon item.

The masks also showed off a lot of creativity. I got a lot more mileage out of screwing around with the Bomb mask or the Stone mask than I ever got out of the Farore's Wind or Nayru's Love in OoT.

The one thing that hurts MM is that so much of the game is optional you can skip the sidequests and plow straight through to the end really quickly. But, if you're into nonlinear game design and you take the time to really explore every bit of the world (and all three days of it) you're treated to all sorts of amusing secrets and sidequests.

I just finished up Mr. Robot, a fun if slightly awkward pairing of isometric block puzzles and console RPG style random battles.

I'm trying to finish inFamous, the collect-a-thon Blast Shards are a little annoying because you have to keep hammering the L3 trigger to show them on the map. That should be automatic and permanent. I think maybe when I beat that I'll treat myself to Portal 2. Now that I have a new video card I can play a lot of PC games I could not previously run.

[C.A. Sinner]

Listen bro, I played through MM back when it came out and did almost all the sidequests. I had all the masks and the great fairy sword etc. I loved it at the time and didn't consider it to be particularly "difficult" to get into or w/e. I don't know why everyone says that.

[Gimym TILBERT]

Because A lot of people pile on the game because of that and it have a bad rep. I'm sure about the quirkiness, I found the social quest quite decent and complete with great development of character. Also OOT was full of underdeveloped stuff, mask? Gossip stone you can access only late? hidden naryu love? Bland character? Ice arrow that absolutely serve no purpose? the left side of hyrule field (opposite to kokorico village) is absolutely empty?The game was more linear and looked therefore more meaty, The main quest in MM finish quite quickly! Back in the time I'm not sure I was a hipster, MM was THE mainstream and there wasn't the huge gamer collective consciousness (or I wasn't part of it because I didn't have internet) aside from my local peer. Actually since majora I'm less kin on dungeon, a trend started with zelda GB over zelda 3. It's also the game who prompt me to study social gaming in typical adventure game.

Calling people hipster because the game have some perk today is a bit harsh.

I would also rephrase immersion as social immersion VS exploration immersion, OOt is certainly more introspective than the extravert majora.

[C.A. Sinner]

The hipster stuff was a joke.

It isn't about some illusion that OOT is more "meaty" or whatever. It was always pretty clear to me that MM has more content. I didn't really make the distinction between the "main quest" and the "sidequests" back then and to a certain extent I still don't. I don't mind the rewinding mechanic either, in fact I rather like it. So the game's structure isn't where my problems with it lie.

The problem is world/level design, what you call "exploration immersion." The level design in OOT is absolutely impeccable. Every area in the game has a distinct feel, achieved not so much through reliance on cliches (even though the cliches exist) but through art direction and music working together perfectly to create different (but related) atmospheres. I would consider OOT to be one of the top 5 best uses of music in videogames in fact. MM seemed like a step back in this regard. Clock Town is the only thing in MM that comes close to OOT's level of brilliance.

I wouldn't call the characters in OOT bland, that's just Nintendo's style of visual rather than verbal storytelling. True, their dialog isn't that interesting (but then again what game dialog is?) but they're still all very memorable. Of course you could argue that MM uses the same character models (with slightly higher polycounts), but it's really the combination of characters and locations in OOT that does it for me. Putting the same characters into blander locations doesn't work as well.

Actually in terms of storytelling MM breaks with the Nintendo tradition a bit by being rather dialog-heavy. It feels more like a typical JRPG with lots of exposition, a "tragic" villain, ridiculous characters, an over-the-top finale etc. I guess it appeals more to animedorks than the more subdued, hands-off approach of OOT because of that.

[unsilentwill]

This may end up being it's own thread. Depends on moderation I guess.

You seem to be confusing exposition with conversation. Ocarina's story, as compared to animedorkery, is as western as it gets. Bad guy with no backstory takes power and captures princess. I personally love that every single character is MM is personally affected and has individual histories and goals and relationships with other characters.

The dungeon design is spot on and complicated, less maze-y than OoT. Maybe it's a matter of taste, but the swamp, the mountain, the bay, the canyon and the moon have a brilliant feel to them, with the culture of the each race effecting every design decision. The temples mostly aren't temples, they are fully functioning parts of the world.

[Gimym TILBERT]

@casinclair
Character wasn't about the visual (they use the same model). I don't get your analysis of character either since OOT is basically that (the wise, the hero, the childhood friend, the flamboyant villain complete with evil laugh and the damsel in distress), The dialog in MM was also in line with the social gameplay (find who relate to who and which are their problem, it's pretty straightforward and functional except hint are emotion connection rather than practical need that need object) It's pretty functional, contrast to OOT find my 5 chicken plz!

That's why I don't get your argument. Maybe It's more about the "contain" feeling of oot that let you fill the void (introspective immersion). But sure in term of world/level design OOt have much more emphasis on space than Majora where space is shrinked in favor of density. From a taste perspective I like music in majora's more but that's irrelevant to the rational.

[C.A. Sinner]

Maybe It's more about the "contain" feeling of oot that let you fill the void (introspective immersion). But sure in term of world/level design OOt have much more emphasis on space than Majora where space is shrinked in favor of density.

This is basically my entire argument. I love minimal but interesting storytelling that sparks my imagination. Other examples would include Shadow of the Colossus and Demon's Souls. I'm a big advocate of implying things rather than explaining them outright. Also in line with this, I'm more of an atmosphere person than a plot person. The reason I referenced JRPGs and animedorks is that anime fans and JRPG players tend to get off on complicated plots with lots of twists. I don't. The plot is tertiary to me at best.

[John Sandoval]

Finished Ghost Trick. I wonder how they did the animation... Possibly 3d models just pixelled over?