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890656 Posts in 33509 Topics- by 24748 Members - Latest Member: CherrySlug

June 17, 2013, 09:45:15 PM
TIGSource ForumsDeveloperFeedbackFinishedCinders - a serious western fairytale VN
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Author Topic: Cinders - a serious western fairytale VN  (Read 8669 times)
TeeGee
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« Reply #30 on: January 27, 2012, 04:43:22 AM »

My VN experience is mainly bento_smile's short works, Christine Love's work, Phoenix Wright (for a perhaps broader definition of VN)

Just like me, back when I started this project Wink.

Okay, PMs sent. Have fun, guys. And let me know if you have any feedback. We plan at least one bigger edit run before the release, but otherwise it's pretty much how it's going to look in the final version. I'm really curious how it fares against other VNs.

If anyone else wants to give it a try, please just post in this thread.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2012, 04:54:44 AM by TeeGee » Logged

Tom Grochowiak
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« Reply #31 on: January 27, 2012, 04:47:33 AM »

I'd love to test it out!

My email is: gabriel (dot) verdon (at) gmail (dot) com
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TeeGee
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« Reply #32 on: January 27, 2012, 04:52:43 AM »

Sent  Gentleman
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Tom Grochowiak
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« Reply #33 on: January 27, 2012, 04:57:54 AM »

Game looks great and would love to test it too. Will send you a personal message with my email  Smiley
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« Reply #34 on: January 27, 2012, 05:18:30 AM »

Fucking goddamn, this has some serious polish. Amazing work guys. I'm gonna buy this game as a reference for how to make a polished game if nothing else Cheesy


I just started a new game so I will edit this post with my impressions on the story.


Edit: Everything seems really nicely put together. My experience with visual novels is basically zero so I can't really compare it to anything else. The writing seems quite solid.

I found the character eyes to be pretty mesmerizing, but not necessarily in a good way. I feel like it would be nicer if they didn't wander around so aimlessly, and maybe focused on whichever character they were talking to, and glanced away momentarily, or something like that. At the moment it feels just a little bit too far towards the uncanny valley.

The GUI and mouse controls were spot on so no complaints there.

Will update further as I progress through the story.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2012, 05:56:22 AM by Gabriel Verdon » Logged

TeeGee
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« Reply #35 on: January 27, 2012, 05:20:27 AM »

Game looks great and would love to test it too. Will send you a personal message with my email  Smiley

Sent. Have fun Smiley.


Fucking goddamn, this has some serious polish. Amazing work guys. I'm gonna buy this game as a reference for how to make a polished game if nothing else Cheesy


I just started a new game so I will edit this post with my impressions on the story.

 Gentleman
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Tom Grochowiak
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« Reply #36 on: January 27, 2012, 02:00:35 PM »

The game looks absolutely AMAZING. All the movement of things in the background, from the flowers to the reflections of light on the water, just screams quality. Kudos to your artist(s), they put a lot of work into it.

I really appreciate all the paths that are available to me. However, I do have an issue with the writing. It's acceptable, but it looks like it was written by someone who wasn't a native English speaker. It needs tweaking to be at the same level as the artwork.

I'd love to share some screenshots with some friends, but I wasn't too sure if you'd be okay with that, so I didn't.
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TeeGee
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« Reply #37 on: January 27, 2012, 02:09:20 PM »

The game looks absolutely AMAZING. All the movement of things in the background, from the flowers to the reflections of light on the water, just screams quality. Kudos to your artist(s), they put a lot of work into it.
Thanks. All the art is drawn by a single artist. Animations and effects are mine.

Quote
I really appreciate all the paths that are available to me. However, I do have an issue with the writing. It's acceptable, but it looks like it was written by someone who wasn't a native English speaker. It needs tweaking to be at the same level as the artwork.
If you mean in the beginning of the game, then yeah - some parts were written by me, and I'm not a native speaker. The game is still to undergo at least one big editing pass so it should all get ironed out.

Quote
I'd love to share some screenshots with some friends, but I wasn't too sure if you'd be okay with that, so I didn't.
Sure, I don't see why not Wink.
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Tom Grochowiak
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« Reply #38 on: January 29, 2012, 02:49:48 AM »

I am loving this so far. It's obvious you've put a lot of care and love into the game. Playing this has made me psyched for the full game. Grin

Disjointed notes below.

Writing: a bit clunky in the intro (particularly the self-aware lines about clichéd villains and being an "independent woman"), but the storytelling kept me interested until the end of the demo.

Typo: I have to stay patient and hope for the better." -> "hope for the best / hope for things to improve / hope it will get better"

Writing: "I'm not flimsy." I haven't heard that word describe a person before, although a quick google search shows it is not unprecedented.

Typo: "Few hours later" -> "A few hours later" during the transition to night in the chapter "Back Home."

Typo: "And that's what dad would doo too." -> "do, too." at the lake in the chapter "A Glimpse of Freedom"

UI: Upon starting the game on my machine, there's a static black screen for 5-10 seconds, just long enough for me to wonder if the game froze on boot.

Major bug: I got into an infinite loop. On the first day of the Lady's absence, I went to the inn first, then saw Tobias, and then the game forced me to repeat the inn scene, then the Tobias scene, ad infinitum. I'm not sure where the save games are stored, but I can email it to you it if necessary. My choices were: Go to inn, ask about captain, suggest settling down, act friendly to Tobias, accept date. I had caught Tobias and shifty dude outside Cinders' house, but didn't engage with the faeries at all during that playthrough, if those state variables matter.

Minor typo: Madame Ghede: "And it was impossible to just go an visit you." should be "and" or have an apostrophe.

UI: I had forgotten the key for conditionally skipping already seen lines (without using auto-play), and couldn't find it in the UI anywhere.

Expectations: The character intros, lovely as they are, aren't skipped in skip mode as I would expect.

Expectations: It appears if I rewind dialogue in a scene or branch I have not yet completed, I can't use skip mode to return to the point at which I had begun rewinding.

Expectations: For the times when the map screen lets me idle a bit at my current location, I'd expect that option to disappear once I've already seen that short idling scene if the dialogue is just going to repeat anyway.

Clarity: The tutorial screen seemed to imply that I would be able to rewind back to the last decision point, but it wasn't clear that I cannot rewind past scene changes or silent branches as well.

Clarity: The visual depiction of time of day is a bit inconsistent. e.g. Visiting the lake makes the map screen show a night scene. Going to town shows a bright blue sky.

Clarity: The "P" in "Perrault" for his introduction screen doesn't parse well to my eyes.
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« Reply #39 on: January 29, 2012, 08:09:07 AM »

Had a play through the demo you sent and just have to say you guys have done an amazing job, it's so well done and highly polished that it really seems like a finished work that hasn't had to hold back on any aspects because of budget.

Very professional work and not much I can say for feedback. The few points I considered with my playthrough have already been mentioned by people such as:

I found the character eyes to be pretty mesmerizing, but not necessarily in a good way. I feel like it would be nicer if they didn't wander around so aimlessly, and maybe focused on whichever character they were talking to, and glanced away momentarily, or something like that. At the moment it feels just a little bit too far towards the uncanny valley.

At times the eyes did seem to distract and lose focus from what was occuring.

Also the feedback sound of when text appears, I don't think is really necessary.

Like the simple effects with animation you've done and the character intros are great transitions.

Really amazing job  Gentleman
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« Reply #40 on: January 29, 2012, 08:57:10 AM »

Thanks for such great and detailed feedback, guys. Note taken on all the issues you've mentioned - we'll try to improve what we can. Especially writing quirks and typos should disappear after enough editing passes. I'll think what to do with the eyes as well.

Had a play through the demo you sent and just have to say you guys have done an amazing job, it's so well done and highly polished that it really seems like a finished work that hasn't had to hold back on any aspects because of budget.

The game doesn't really have a budget. It's basically just me and my artist friend working together, splitting the potential profit. We also added a writer to the mix recently. The only money we've spent was on the music. And since we know Rob since Magi, we've worked a special deal in which we pay him depending on how many copies we sell. We're doing it full-time, though, so we just have plenty of time for polishing and improvements.
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Tom Grochowiak
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« Reply #41 on: January 29, 2012, 01:19:01 PM »

Are demo sendouts over?  This project is really intriguing, and the art looks gorgeous.
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« Reply #42 on: January 29, 2012, 02:20:12 PM »

PM sent Smiley.
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Tom Grochowiak
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« Reply #43 on: January 29, 2012, 06:15:45 PM »

I second the comments on polish.  For $0, and such a short time in production, this level of quality is immense, and the GUI and menus were presented smoothly and professionally.  The art is also orgasm-worthy, so kudos to whoever did the graphics in this.

That being said, I very much enjoyed the writing from the demo.  Like some of the people above have said, there are a few typos here and there, but I can't point out any others than the ones that have already been mentioned.  The choice sections were very appropriately placed, and the twig icon was a nice indicator of which parts of the story were influenced by the choices.

One gripe I have so far is that Cinders herself doesn't seem to be developing much as a character.  A large amount of VN protagonists seem to suffer from this sort of thing, and Cinders does too, though to a lesser extent.  The sections where she elaborates on her past are interesting, to be sure, and those stand out as some of the better of her scenes, but there are many areas where I found her character to be little more than a mediator for feuds between other characters.

I enjoyed the pace of the game, though.  Most VNs that I've read are unbearably slow with moving their plot forward.  The scenes here were promptly and concisely written, and the moments of intrigue and character introductions were nicely spaced, and kept me interested throughout.

I cannot wait for the finished product here!  As far as production value goes, this is right up there with Katawa Shoujo, and the art style is something much more unique to the genre of visual novels.  Here's hoping to this project's success down the line!
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TeeGee
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« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2012, 06:18:57 AM »

Make Cinders development as a character more visible -- got it  Smiley Hand Thumbs Up Right. The new writer had similar issues with her, and said she wants to make Cinders personality and backstory more pronounced, so I guess she's on the right track.


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For $0, and such a short time in production, this level of quality is immense,

Hah, I wish I could say that the production time was short. The whole game was meant to be done in under 6 months, and actually the code and art was well done by that time. Writing took forever though, and we're slowly approaching the one year mark Sad.
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Tom Grochowiak
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