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[im9today]

stop telling other people what to do paul eres

isn't this 'telling other people what to do'

yes but i am not an objectivist

in fact i'm barely a person

[thatshelby]

There are a few, but I'm a fucking misogynist idiot that no girls want to talk to. Don't know if that makes a difference.

Haha, bet I talk to more girls than you bro.

There are a few, but at least half of them were born male. Don't know if that makes a difference.

[FrankieSmileShow]

I was writing a reply and then I erased it and started over when it hit me that I cannot name off the top of my head any female mainstream movie director. And immediately after, it hit me that its terrible that I never even "realized" that before.
I wonder what sort of gender proportion we can see in filmmaking-related education, and how it translates into women working in that area of work. Is there just no interest to begin with, or the problem is further down the line, that producers don't trust female directors, that it doesn't sell? Or probably a mix of both, stuck in a vicious circle of there being few female directors, which gives a society image that women do not make movies, which make women less likely to take up film-making.

[C.A. Sinner]

This is why we need moderators.

Bring back melly.

I agree that we need at least a bit more moderation here. But:

I like Melly a lot as a person, but some of his decisions as a mod were kind of questionable, such as deleting posts from the middle of threads.

[14113]

This is why we need moderators.

Bring back melly.

I agree that we need at least a bit more moderation here. But:

I like Melly a lot as a person, but some of his decisions as a mod were kind of questionable, such as deleting posts from the middle of threads.

I actually support that; simply having the posts viewable on the forum brings the tone down, and makes it look like things like that are ok.

[jwk5]

I was writing a reply and then I erased it and started over when it hit me that I cannot name off the top of my head any female mainstream movie director. And immediately after, it hit me that its terrible that I never even "realized" that before.
I wonder what sort of gender proportion we can see in filmmaking-related education, and how it translates into women working in that area of work. Is there just no interest to begin with, or the problem is further down the line, that producers don't trust female directors, that it doesn't sell? Or probably a mix of both, stuck in a vicious circle of there being few female directors, which gives a society image that women do not make movies, which make women less likely to take up film-making.

The thing to understand is that, at least in the US, women's rights have been a progressive thing and even when virtually equal rights were finally established there were still lingering taboos. I think with a lot of these fields you don't see as many women as men involved not so much because of a prejudice anymore (again, I am referring to the US) but rather because many women are just starting to realize the doors are open to them.

It's not a state of ignorance but the gradual revelation of social change. This does not just apply to women, either. Racial equality rights, sexual orientation equality rights, religious equality rights, etc. have all seen doors opening progressively over the decades but also with lingering taboos.

Even for men there has been social change, the idea of the "stay at home dad" two or so decades ago would have been shameful, today it is a pretty common occurrence for the mom to be working and the dad to be taking care of the house. The daycare industry is another good example. Almost any daycare you see is predominantly staffed by women and there is somewhat of a "Chester the molester" taboo that has kept many men from being able to break into the field (though some have).

As for not knowing about female directors, female indie game developers, etc. I don't think it is anything to worry about. I mean, in addition to not knowing the percentage of female indie developers, I also don't know the percentage of black indie developers, gay indie developers, tall indie developers, Russian indie developers, etc. Why? Because I have no need to know. The information is of no practical use to me (currently). I am sure when you feel you need to know you will figure it out.

[Paul Eres]

yes but i am not an objectivist

in fact i'm barely a person

i'm neither objectivist nor a person either tho. and i wasn't actually telling them what to do either. i was just pointing out that both cow and phubans make this forum more unpleasant, not more pleasant. but perhaps that is what they want. i'm not saying pleasant forums are better than unpleasant forums. in fact, i prefer unpleasant forums. however, i think that if they want pleasant forums, they would want to act in a way conductive of pleasant forums. so it's hypocritical of cow to claim to be fighting for pleasantness but to increase unpleasantness (phubans never said he was fighting for pleasantness so his behavior isn't hypocritical). but i personally don't really care who does what, if someone wants to increase unpleasantness and claim to be increasing pleasantness, that's up to them.

[C.A. Sinner]

I actually support that; simply having the posts viewable on the forum brings the tone down, and makes it look like things like that are ok.

Uh... no.

I used to be a mod at a forum that eventually went down the shitter (thanks to strict moderation but w/e) and our policy was editing the post in question and inserting a warning of some kind into it. Randomly deleting posts just means punishing people without letting them know you're punishing them (which is completely pointless for reasons I don't think I need to explain) as well as making them mad when they find out.

[jwk5]

i was just pointing out that both cow and phubans make this forum more unpleasant, not more pleasant.

It is my new goal to be unpleasantly pleasant. I will be so obnoxiously nice and considerate that you will be sickened by it and wish death upon me. A fusion of Bob Ross and Mr. Rogers with a hint of Tony Robbins. I will be an abomination, but I will be beautiful!

Or maybe I'll be pleasantly unpleasant. Like a puppy that chews up all your shoes but looks at you with those big sad puppy eyes and almost makes you regret that you had it euthanized a week ago.

[14113]

I actually support that; simply having the posts viewable on the forum brings the tone down, and makes it look like things like that are ok.

Uh... no.

I used to be a mod at a forum that eventually went down the shitter (thanks to strict moderation but w/e) and our policy was editing the post in question and inserting a warning of some kind into it. Randomly deleting posts just means punishing people without letting them know you're punishing them (which is completely pointless for reasons I don't think I need to explain) as well as making them mad when they find out.

I still think you'd agree than NO moderation is better than none no? I supported melly's tactics because they got the job done. Sure they probably pissed people off, but I'd rather some trolls got pissed off than everyone else's enjoyment got stifled.

I don't need to tell you that a community lives and dies on the happiness of its members, and in this situation, I think stricter moderation can help with that. I'm not saying go full gestapo, and ensure that every post is vetted before posting, but I am advocating for some control over the more volatile members.

(also, I don't think your time as a mod somewhere else is really important, the two communities were probably very different and subject to different dynamics, so a right decision there may be a wrong one here.)

[Cow]

My argument that there shouldn't be discrimination based on gender or sexual preferences or race makes this forum unpleasant?

 

Double Paul thread, all the way.

[C.A. Sinner]

Sure they probably pissed people off, but I'd rather some trolls got pissed off than everyone else's enjoyment got stifled.

I see those two as at least somewhat related though.

(also, I don't think your time as a mod somewhere else is really important, the two communities were probably very different and subject to different dynamics, so a right decision there may be a wrong one here.)

I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I also didn't mean to imply that the warning policy was the reason for that other forum's downfall. In retrospect, it was probably the only good thing about the moderation there, and I do believe it could work for TIGS as well. I mean, why not?

O and to make another thing clear: This isn't me asking to be a made a mod. I don't think I want to be an internets forum moderator ever again.

[Dragonmaw]

Regarding eva, she wasn't being homophobic. She did, however, end up being intolerable and got a ban. One which, I might add, I fully support, even though I'm sad to see her go.

I felt she was being homophobic, and I was offended by that. The use of the f word as an insult is unacceptable to me, and to many thers. If you weren't offended by it, then thats you. I'm not offended by the transgender stuff, and I dont think paul and moi are being offensive towards them, however, I do support you in saying they should stop, as it is detrimental to the overall decor of the forum. It's the same situation with me and eva, although you may not think it was homophobic, many people did.

We've already had this discussion, but I'll reiterate my position. Words are not innately phobic, it's the intent behind them. Eva is not being homophobic because her intent obviously has nothing to do with sexual preference and everything to do with being an asshole. While I don't support her usage of the term "faggot" as it is inherently loaded, I am also apparently smart enough to recognize that she is using the term in the common devalued sense. Something which escapes you, for whatever reason.

Also, not "many" people did. A few shallow, word-obsessed people did. More people (rightfully) had issues with her rage than with the fact that she sometimes uses the word faggot. If you want to criticize eva for spouting incomprehensible rage posts everywhere whenever something slightly remotely not in line with her values comes up, I'll support that wholeheartedly. But eva is certainly not a homophobe and you sound like a shallow fool every time you say it. From now on, every time you call eva a homophobe, I will simply reply with "you are an idiot," since it's pretty much over.

As for moi and Phubans. I'd like to go on the record and say that I don't have a grudge against Phubans, but the majority of his posts that come to my attention seriously push my buttons. I'm sure he contributes fine posts to the technical forums, feedback forums, whatever. But whenever anything relating to discrimination, women, transfolk, or his ego comes up, he either makes a total ass of himself (hence misogyny comments) or explodes into a massive fireball of angst. Moi I'm not really familiar with, but that transgender comment was something I knew (and dreaded) was coming.

I actually support that; simply having the posts viewable on the forum brings the tone down, and makes it look like things like that are ok.

Uh... no.

I used to be a mod at a forum that eventually went down the shitter (thanks to strict moderation but w/e) and our policy was editing the post in question and inserting a warning of some kind into it. Randomly deleting posts just means punishing people without letting them know you're punishing them (which is completely pointless for reasons I don't think I need to explain) as well as making them mad when they find out.

What my sexy music waifu CA Sinclair said. I like Melly a lot but moving non-trivial posts out of a thread only serves to disrupt everything. If it's just a throwaway line or a completely off-topic rant or so (like eva's raging in the Portal 2 thread, or the explosion in Moosh's devlog), then moving it to the more appropriate section is fine. But all outright random deletion does is make people more furious, which leads to more rage posts.

I still think you'd agree than NO moderation is better than none no? I supported melly's tactics because they got the job done. Sure they probably pissed people off, but I'd rather some trolls got pissed off than everyone else's enjoyment got stifled.

This is some pretty impressive mental gymnastics here. You simultaneously marginalize people as trolls AND speak on the behalf of the entire forum. Classy.

[14113]

Sure they probably pissed people off, but I'd rather some trolls got pissed off than everyone else's enjoyment got stifled.

I see those two as at least somewhat related though.

(also, I don't think your time as a mod somewhere else is really important, the two communities were probably very different and subject to different dynamics, so a right decision there may be a wrong one here.)

I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I also didn't mean to imply that the warning policy was the reason for that other forum's downfall. In retrospect, it was probably the only good thing about the moderation there, and I do believe it could work for TIGS as well. I mean, why not?

O and to make another thing clear: This isn't me asking to be a made a mod. I don't think I want to be an internets forum moderator ever again.

Yeah, I think having some mods just to warn people when their behaviours getting out of line would be good. They needn't have any real power apart from that, but it would help keep people from feeling like they can do what they want anywhere in the forum.

[jwk5]

My argument that there shouldn't be discrimination based on gender or sexual preferences or race makes this forum unpleasant?

What of the "white males" you keep bringing up? I seriously doubt every person who is a "white male" here has gone out of their way to disrespect you yet three times already you've insinuated that this community is geared towards the "white males" or that "white males" are trying to downplay sexism and racism. If eliminating discrimination based on gender, sexual preferences, or race would make this place more pleasant maybe you should start with yourself.