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879779 Posts in 33005 Topics- by 24379 Members - Latest Member: alisiahl87

May 24, 2013, 11:15:28 PM
TIGSource ForumsDeveloperFeedbackDevLogsThe Understory (previously "Spectre Shock")
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Author Topic: The Understory (previously "Spectre Shock")  (Read 14588 times)
Pirate Hearts
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« Reply #30 on: June 05, 2011, 12:16:46 PM »

Progress has been slower the last few days, but I finally stubbed out a combat manager so I can start to get a feel for how attacking will work. You can cut down shrubs and stuff.

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Pirate Hearts
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« Reply #31 on: June 19, 2011, 05:31:39 PM »

omg i made an update ever

Fixed up the stupid "doors are front-facing quads" issue and added loops to level generation where applicable.
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Andy Wolff
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« Reply #32 on: June 19, 2011, 06:48:43 PM »

This is looking rather nice

I sometimes get random hangs and jumps on the camera. The first thing I did was walk towards the closest chest, but when I reached it, I had passed through the wall it was up against, so I was stuck between the wall and the chest. This won't be a problem when you can loot chests, but if you plan on having an empty chest show up after you loot one, you should allow players to walk through the empty chests


I'll be watching this. Good luck on development
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Pirate Hearts
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« Reply #33 on: June 19, 2011, 06:59:25 PM »

Thanks for the info. Chests do block unit-width paths at the moment (eventually, they'll be placed against walls and in corners to circumvent that), but the phasing through the wall/chest definitely sounds like a bug; I'll look into that.
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ambinate
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« Reply #34 on: June 19, 2011, 07:37:17 PM »

i'm on a mac so i can't test it out, but i love the way this looks from the screens.  definitely looking forward to seeing where this goes.
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Pirate Hearts
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« Reply #35 on: June 28, 2011, 07:58:59 PM »



Working on world generation.

Each cell in this map represents one whole dungeon, probably around the size they're being generated now.

Too big? WTF
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« Reply #36 on: June 28, 2011, 09:41:31 PM »

Nah, looks like a good size for a world.
It'd be fun if it was a bit more Zelda 1 like though, but that's just my opinion.
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Mhaine
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« Reply #37 on: June 28, 2011, 11:23:08 PM »

The game is extremely enjoyable for the content available for now. And since you are thinking of making a Shock-like, I doubt you can fail. The size of the current in-game level suggests that your world map is large enough, and certainly not too large.
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« Reply #38 on: June 29, 2011, 09:42:31 AM »

Holy crap this is one of the most beautiful things I've ever encountered
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Pirate Hearts
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« Reply #39 on: July 03, 2011, 12:03:55 PM »



I haven't patched the game in a while since I've been working on world generation and don't really have anything playable to show for it, but here's some world visualization.

Each world will consist of five floors of increasing size. The top floor will always have the same layout, and it will be a sort of training/tutorial area. The bottom floor will be absolutely massive (over half of the entire play space in this case).

It won't be necessary to traverse every single cell to reach the goal, but I haven't decided yet whether non-critical branches will be distinguished in any way during gameplay.

I still need to add some shortcut planning so that the path isn't so linear.

I'm considering adding an optional "build-a-world" mode where you can get a preview of the world and play around with random seeds to change the layout, flow, and "feel" independently.
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« Reply #40 on: July 04, 2011, 06:26:41 PM »

Looks amazing, surprised that this hasn't been done before
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Pirate Hearts
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« Reply #41 on: July 07, 2011, 01:29:45 AM »

tl;dr: I ramble about world generation and Metroidvanias.

I had a bit of an epiphany earlier tonight and I realized that my efforts with world generation were approaching something that I hadn't quite put my finger on (at least not recently). If I subdivide the world into regions, I can give each region a unique theme or flavor and more clearly delineate progress through the world.

To illustrate this, I've colored the map by region in my visualization/driver/test program. The brighter cells indicates the room in which the player would find the "key" to unlock the next region. (In some cases, this might be an actual key, but whenever possible, it should be a new ability that lets the player access the next area...think high jump in Metroid, mist form in Symphony of the Night, etc.)



Of course, once I made this connection and was able to visualize the regions more clearly, I realized the balance is way off, so now I need to revise the algorithm to subdivide the world into more evenly sized chunks.

I'm thinking this will also allow me to pursue some earlier ideas I had for progress and flow which should hopefully give the world a more intuitive, handcrafted, designed feel...after all, isn't that really the goal of procedural content generation?

My Word!

Since I feel like rambling about design a little more, it's worth mentioning that I was looking at maps of Metroidvania games for reference a while back when I was trying to come up with an algorithm for world generation. This one map of SotN in particular made a big impression:



It's easy to see how each region connects to every other region, and on a high level, you could draw a graph in which each region is represented by a node in the graph and edges are drawn between connected regions.

That concept was sort of where my world generation algorithm got started, but somewhere between conception and implementation, this goal got muddled and lost, and then accidentally rediscovered.

Back when I first started planning these algorithms, I didn't have anything playable, and it was harder to gauge how big the world should be relative to each individual "dungeon" area. (In light of recent changes, "room" might be a more appropriate term than "dungeon," but I'm sticking with my original vocabulary for now.) I was originally imagining that the individual dungeons would be larger, but I kind of like the size they're being generated at now, and in fact, I might even want to reel them in a bit more in the future. Having each dungeon represent a concise, isolated gameplay space allows me to draw parallels to Metroidvanias more closely. It's easy to compare these areas to individual rooms in SotN, and from there, I can also draw a comparison between the world layouts of each game. At that point, the worlds I'm generating no longer seem oppressively massive, nor does so much of the space seem potentially wasted. At the moment, the only unique feature of each region of the world is that one cell contains the key to the next region, but when I think about the world in Metroidvania terms, it's easy to imagine that I could fill some of the "wasted" space with safe rooms/save points, secret rooms, maybe even teleport rooms for faster travel across the larger floors.

I also realized as I was going over this stuff again that my current algorithm creates a very linear progression. Each region contains a key which allows entry to the next region, and the next region is connected only to the current one. Besides the obvious flaw of having only way to traverse the world from any one point to any other point, it's also less interesting to have each region be immediately adjacent to the next. I'd like to mix this up a bit so that, for instance, the final region of a floor might be immediately adjacent to the first, but it's inaccessible until the entire floor has been traversed. From the start, one has my goals has been that the player should always see the lock before they find the key, and mixing up the region order in this way would just help take that concept to the next level.

One of the more interesting developments to arise from all this is that I'm no longer sure whether I need or want to divide the world into multiple floors, as illustrated in my previous post. Having multiple floors is more of a roguelike trope, and the design for this game is starting to feel like more of a first-person Legend of Zelda with only very specific, cherry-picked elements of roguelikes, Shock-likes, and Metroidvanias. I do still like the idea of progressing lower and lower into a set of increasingly dark and twisted dungeon themes (I'll save that for another rambling design thread), but I can probably accomplish the same without actually fragmenting the world. It's definitely something to sleep on.

Okay, that's enough rambling. I'm going to go play some SotN now.  Roll Eyes
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Pirate Hearts
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« Reply #42 on: July 12, 2011, 09:05:33 PM »

Per my previous post, I've put some work into balancing out the size of each region.

Here are a few samples of different worlds created with the same parameters:

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Qbopper
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« Reply #43 on: July 13, 2011, 07:25:49 AM »

Holy god, this looks amazing.
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Pirate Hearts
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« Reply #44 on: July 16, 2011, 12:06:07 AM »

Mostly finished world generation. Coffee

More examples:



Still gotta add some loops/shortcuts, but the critical path planning works.
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