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[John Sandoval]

[allen]

saw that on reddit, and going to quote this post as he puts it nicely:

With an open hero pool like Dota, one can simply open a practice game and test a hero out for 5 minutes to 'get' the basics of the hero.

With a time/pay-restricted champion pool like LoL, a large percentage of gamers will be limited on their understanding of how to counter a champ because they learn solely from experience. With so many champs they can't try at will, the 2nd or 3rd time playing against it can be very frustrating, let alone the 1st.

Cause you can't immediately open a test game to see why that champ is strong. You have to wait for the next time it's free. Or better yet, buy it.

Because the environment Riot offers limits opportunities to learn, this is why, in their mantra, 'knowledge' is deemed 'a burden'.

And their business model forces them to keep it that way.

Because telling a complaining customer "it's your fault you don't know how to counter a champ you have no access to" is like saying "the reason you don't know you're losing is you're not paying us enough. Buy him. And if not try him in 6 weeks when he's free, or go watch a vid. But you can't try him right now, and it's not our fault."

They have successfully gained favor with the lucrative casual crowd. But that means they can't expect their gamers to be dedicated in learning. And that means Riot has to take the brunt of the responsibility for Burden of Knowledge. Unfortunately, they've restricted their champ development options, as a result.

and regarding that last bit, Morello himself admitted in that thread that their recent champ designs have been boring. or as he put it "flat".

[John Sandoval]

[Glaiel-Gamer]

invoker is so fun though

[Nillo]

invoker is so fun though

[allen]

morello is just bad at dota

[John Sandoval]

i dunno, i agree with a lot of what he has to say

[RCIX]

saw that on reddit, and going to quote this post as he puts it nicely:

With an open hero pool like Dota, one can simply open a practice game and test a hero out for 5 minutes to 'get' the basics of the hero.

With a time/pay-restricted champion pool like LoL, a large percentage of gamers will be limited on their understanding of how to counter a champ because they learn solely from experience. With so many champs they can't try at will, the 2nd or 3rd time playing against it can be very frustrating, let alone the 1st.

Cause you can't immediately open a test game to see why that champ is strong. You have to wait for the next time it's free. Or better yet, buy it.

Because the environment Riot offers limits opportunities to learn, this is why, in their mantra, 'knowledge' is deemed 'a burden'.

And their business model forces them to keep it that way.

Because telling a complaining customer "it's your fault you don't know how to counter a champ you have no access to" is like saying "the reason you don't know you're losing is you're not paying us enough. Buy him. And if not try him in 6 weeks when he's free, or go watch a vid. But you can't try him right now, and it's not our fault."

They have successfully gained favor with the lucrative casual crowd. But that means they can't expect their gamers to be dedicated in learning. And that means Riot has to take the brunt of the responsibility for Burden of Knowledge. Unfortunately, they've restricted their champ development options, as a result.

and regarding that last bit, Morello himself admitted in that thread that their recent champ designs have been boring. or as he put it "flat".

I'm curious. What is with this use of "casual" to refer to League of Legends? It still has tons of depth. You have to be good in many areas to play it. Comparing it to an actual casual game (see Angry Birds, Cut the Rope, [insert facebook game here]) yields a world of difference. It just seems like Dota players like to use that label as a slight insult because it doesn't have the "real MOBA mechanics like denying or high ground".

[Blademasterbobo]

lol i suk diks

stuff

I'm retarded. Out of that entire post, the only thing that I managed to read was the use of the word "casual." Instead of refuting any points that the person made, I'll just shout "NO U," while picking at that person's usage of a single word. Plus, chances are I know what they meant by using that word, but I'd rather change this into a semantics debate than actually try to participate in real argument.

[RCIX]

lol i suk diks

stuff

I'm retarded. Out of that entire post, the only thing that I managed to read was the use of the word "casual." Instead of refuting any points that the person made, I'll just shout "NO U," while picking at that person's usage of a single word. Plus, chances are I know what they meant by using that word, but I'd rather change this into a semantics debate than actually try to participate in real argument.

wee, bobo is maaaaad.....


Anyway, that was the only thing I wanted to reply to at the time. I will however reply now:

With an open hero pool like Dota, one can simply open a practice game and test a hero out for 5 minutes to 'get' the basics of the hero.

With a time/pay-restricted champion pool like LoL, a large percentage of gamers will be limited on their understanding of how to counter a champ because they learn solely from experience. With so many champs they can't try at will, the 2nd or 3rd time playing against it can be very frustrating, let alone the 1st.

Cause you can't immediately open a test game to see why that champ is strong. You have to wait for the next time it's free. Or better yet, buy it.

Because the environment Riot offers limits opportunities to learn, this is why, in their mantra, 'knowledge' is deemed 'a burden'.

And their business model forces them to keep it that way.

Because telling a complaining customer "it's your fault you don't know how to counter a champ you have no access to" is like saying "the reason you don't know you're losing is you're not paying us enough. Buy him. And if not try him in 6 weeks when he's free, or go watch a vid. But you can't try him right now, and it's not our fault."

They have successfully gained favor with the lucrative casual crowd. But that means they can't expect their gamers to be dedicated in learning. And that means Riot has to take the brunt of the responsibility for Burden of Knowledge. Unfortunately, they've restricted their champ development options, as a result.

And the problem with this is... What? "But we don't get the cool champions because the idiot casuals ruin it for everyyyone!!!"?

[John Sandoval]

you are literally putting words in our mouths

please stop

[Glaiel-Gamer]

the problem with that is that all the heroes have to be the same since you can't have all of them to try out and have to wait very long to even get to see what some of them do, without spending money of course.

Not once while I was playing LoL did I have a chance to try out Lux, for instance

[IzzyReggie]

It only takes me until they hit level 6 to figure new champs out.

Like, the first time I saw Lux "okay, she has a snare. Let me just stay behind minions. Oh, her snare hits multiple targets. Oh shit she's throwing a... shield at me? Okay. It doesn't do damage to me, why does she throw it? Oh, it shields allies, too. Oh she can drop an AoE slow, and it hurts when it explodes." until level 6 "OH WAIT WHAT A HUGE LASER WOW"

It's not that hard to figure out what's going on. I don't think you NEED to test a champ or even face it more than once to figure out how it works, unless you feel you need in-depth information (ratios, exact mana costs, etc), and even then all of that information is readily available.

Even with the ultra deep complex and unique Dota2. When I watch my roommate play, I figure out what he and his lane opponent do pretty quick. Oh, Leshrac has an aoe spiky stun thing with a delay? And chain lightning?
Actually, I take that back. I have no idea what Pugna does (the lane opponent in the particular game I watched) because their presence was basically non-existent.

[RCIX]

you are literally putting words in our mouths

please stop

I didn't say that yall here were saying that, but it does seem that the more dedicated section of the dota fanbase uses that as a reason to hate LoL.

Actually, no, this:

the problem with that is that all the heroes have to be the same since you can't have all of them to try out and have to wait very long to even get to see what some of them do, without spending money of course.

Not once while I was playing LoL did I have a chance to try out Lux, for instance

boils down to my quote, or close. *sigh* Plus, I don't get how people can say this when like Veigar compared to Rammus have completely different playstyles, builds, basically everything. I can understand people saying champions within a role play generally similarly (Gragas doesn't play too differently from Veigar or Ahri f.e.), but all the champions "have to be the same"?

[Glaiel-Gamer]

*sigh* Plus, I don't get how people can say this when like Veigar compared to Rammus have completely different playstyles, builds, basically everything.

Yeah no shit they are completely different roles, but there's only like 5 roles in LoL (AD, AP, support, tank, jungler)

Most of the AD carries play the same / similar enough to not matter, same for tanks and supports and junglers and AP carries.

Whereas 2 supports in Dota play COMPLETELY differently (omniknight v. dazzle, crystal maiden v. witch doctor), the carries play differently (faceless void v. juggernaut, sniper v. weaver), the initiators play differently (tidehunter v. puck), in fact you can pick any 2 characters from any 2 role in dota and they'll be completely different, even if they fill the same role. Its more interesting, more fun, and makes for a more diverse metagame.

Same could be said for item variety, since there's very few items that could easily replace each other (very few items JUST give stats without some other benefit, adding even MORE variety to builds and roles)