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[allen]

I'm not going to bother arguing with RCIX anymore. Instead, every time I feel the need to reply to one of his posts I'm going to go play Dota2.

[Paul Eres]

I'm not going to bother arguing with RCIX anymore. Instead, every time I feel the need to reply to one of his posts I'm going to go play Dota2.

didn't you guys already say that with the "i'm done" thing

[John Sandoval]

self control is not my forte

[IzzyReggie]

n fact you can pick any 2 characters from any 2 role in dota and they'll be completely different, even if they fill the same role

From what I can tell, both Bounty Hunter and Bone Fletcher essentially stealth around and then burst people down, except Bone Fletcher can sustain himself and Bounty Hunter makes it easier to chase and also gives gold.

edit: rikimaru also stealths around and bursts people down

I have found the one exception, check and mate.  

Also, like, every champion has a stun in dota2 (altho really, I'm basing this off of playdota.com, which my roommate has said fully applies to dota2 as well). Every time I check out the champs in dota2 I discover a new champion with a ~1.6 second stun, that's also probably AoE and does some decent damage.

Lina Inverse and Ogre Magi are also pretty similar it looks like. A few direct damage spells, a stun, an aoe, a movement/attack speed buff.

[Dragonmaw]

Make it so that you can play a solo practice game in League with any champion regardless of purchase status. Make it so purchasing unlocks that champion for matchmaking play. That would alleviate the "all champs need a low skill cap" issue while maintaining RMT shit.

Also make champions free-to-play for the first two weeks since their introduction.

[Paul Eres]

the first of those ideas is good but the second one would cut into their profits enormously; nobody would buy a new champion if they got to play that champion for 2 weeks first. their riches rely on the thrill of the new to excite people to make impulse-buys of new champions

[Nillo]

From what I can tell, both Bounty Hunter and Bone Fletcher essentially stealth around and then burst people down, except Bone Fletcher can sustain himself and Bounty Hunter makes it easier to chase and also gives gold.

They are somewhat similar but have a lot of obvious differences:
-Fletcher (aka Clinkz) is ranged while Bounty (aka Gondar) is melee, which greatly changes their style of play and choice of items (many viable items like Battlefury on Gondar are not usable on Clinkz due to the melee/ranged difference). It's especially noticeable during the laning phase; Gondar will often have trouble laning while Clinkz can usually harass people out of the lane due to his range advantage and orbwalking ability
-Gondar is built as a counter to other invisibility heroes, while Clinkz has nothing that reveals invisibility
-Clinkz is built to destroy towers very easily due to his attack speed buff and attack damage buff. If he is left alone he can usually take a tower or two in no time. Gondar on the other hand has nothing that helps him destroy towers, so it's usually a better idea for him to try ganking someone instead of taking a tower

There are probably more things I didn't consider since I don't play these two heroes very often, but you get the idea. Also, Rikimaru's Smokescreen makes him very differently from other stealth heroes (I'm pretty sure he's the only stealth hero who can silence enemies and make them miss the majority of their attacks).

Also, sorry for being off-topic I guess :v

[RCIX]

Ok, I am willing to hear about how heroes are similar in one role in LoL, but I'd like someone to do a comparison between heroes as the post above does. Gangplank, Shyvanna, and Volibear are all bruisers (replace Gangplank with Renekton if you prefer), so they should be perfect for comparison. Or, if you want to compare mages instead, do Veigar, Cassiopeia, and Swain instead.

[Paul Eres]

i'd actually consider gangplank to be an ad carry, not a tanky ad. he's pretty squishy (unless he goes atmogs or something), and his attacks are mostly ranged early on (with his q). he's also very reliant on farm. he also normally builds the items of an ad carry: phantom dancer and infinity edge, not the build of jarvan or irelia or garen (who tend to get mostly tank items and maybe one ad item). "tankplank" works but is not as tanky as the dedicated tanky ad characters, and doesn't do as much damage as them when he builds that way, because gangplank is designed to scale so well off of ad; he doesn't have high base damage, he has high ad ratios. so i'd say he's a melee ad carry, much like master yi and trynd

[Dragonmaw]

GP is tankier than Garen, if his base stats are to be believed. But Garen has a better bruiser passive and his shield ability, so yeah.

[Paul Eres]

GP is tankier than Garen, if his base stats are to be believed. But Garen has a better bruiser passive and his shield ability, so yeah.

i'd consider the passive on garen's w to make him much tankier than gp, since he gets 25 "free" armor and mres. you have to take that into account, since 25 extra armor and mres means his effective hp is actually 25% higher than his base hp. his w's passive is by far garen's single best attribute

[IzzyReggie]

Ok, I am willing to hear about how heroes are similar in one role in LoL, but I'd like someone to do a comparison between heroes as the post above does. Gangplank, Shyvanna, and Volibear are all bruisers (replace Gangplank with Renekton if you prefer), so they should be perfect for comparison. Or, if you want to compare mages instead, do Veigar, Cassiopeia, and Swain instead.

Let's be completely fair here: you can pick the four most different champs of any role and say

I have found the one exception, check and mate. 

but there are 91 champs, and probably a lot more are similar than are different. Like Caitlin and Graves are basically the same champ, and I'd consider Vayne pretty similar to them too. Sure they have different kits which leads to Vayne being way more highly mobile and Graves being slightly better at escaping than Caitlyn, but they're for the most part right click to win.

[RCIX]

but there are 91 champs, and probably a lot more are similar than are different. Like Caitlin and Graves are basically the same champ, and I'd consider Vayne pretty similar to them too. Sure they have different kits which leads to Vayne being way more highly mobile and Graves being slightly better at escaping than Caitlyn, but they're for the most part right click to win.

*cough*no*cough*
Caitlyn has 2 utility abilities, one line skillshot AoE, and a single target nuke ult. Graves has 3 AoE nukes (one of which is a CC/utility one instead of for damage) and a dash/AS steroid. Vayne has minidash/AD steroid, knockback and stun, passive true damage AD steroid every third hit, and AD steroid/utility ult. The result is that Caitlyn is best at escaping (use net away from enemy/across wall > place trap in path > run), Graves has strongest burst, and Vayne is the best duelist.

What you're saying is roughly equivalent to claiming Sniper, Razor, and Drow Ranger are the same because they're "for the most part right click to win" -- which is technically true, but I'd bet their kits make a massive difference in how they get played.

Name me two characters and I'll explain how their kits and stats make them play differently.

[John Sandoval]

Yeah, those probably weren't good examples. Cait is all about lane control/using her range to her advantage, while Graves is all about getting up in your face and nuking you.

If you wanted super similar characters, I posted a list of characters whose kit consisted essentially the same abilities a few pages back.

I just kind of wish that there were more 'signature' abilities in the game. I've stated this before, but a lot of the abilities in Riot's heroes are recycled, plain and simple (Just like a majority of the posts/arguments in this thread, though as it goes on, the rhetoric seems to get louder and more obnoxious). 

Don't get me wrong, there are aspects of League that I prefer over DotA. There's more chance for a comeback, it's less carry centric, there are scaling mage type heroes, less stalemating, and it has a somewhat less douchbaggy community- though League's is still pretty terrible. But the kits of Dota heroes are just a breath of fresh air to me.

However, I'd like to state that the main reason I played both League and DotA was simply because other people from TIGs were playing it. If they weren't, I probably would have never picked it up.


(this is all your guys' fault)

[RCIX]

Annie, Ryze, Brand. These heroes generally take mid, because:

Ashe, Caitlyn, Graves, Trynd, etc.

Soraka, Sona, Taric. They duo bot with the AD carry.

Amumu, Rammus, Shen. Generally speaking, they jungle.

Irelia, Yorick, Lee Sin. These folks usually solo top.

This is the only list of characters by you I could find in the last like 7 pages, so I'll roll with this. If it isn't the right list though, then someone will just have to find it for me >.>

Annie, Ryze, Brand.

Annie is more-or-less tied with Ryze for shortest range of these three. Ryze is much more of a sustained caster with low spell cooldowns naturally and via his passive, and Brand is longer ranged and combo oriented via how his spells apply additional effects to targets that have his passive applied.

Ashe, Caitlyn, Graves, Trynd, etc.

Covered Cait vs Graves, but Ashe is more designed to kite (via cone aoe damage, toggle slow on attack, and global stun ult). Tryn is a melee hypercarry with a kit that does everything :rolleyes: (seriously, he has a dash, heal, slow, AD debuff, invulnerablility ult...) who is reliant on farm to be strong.

Soraka, Sona, Taric. They duo bot with the AD carry.

Soraka is the most passive of supports, featuring 2 heals and a mana recovery. She also has a silence. Sona is more aggressive, with a versatile passive, a decent heal, and strong poke as well as an AoE stun (more or less) ult. Taric is more of an anti-AD support, with a single target stun, armor aura, heal, and ally/self buff ult.

Amumu, Rammus, Shen. Generally speaking, they jungle.

Amumu is a magic damage based tank designed for team lockdown, with a massive AoE snare/attack disabler ult, percentage damage AoE toggle, aoe nuke, and reverse pull for initiation. Rammus is anti-AD and is best at locking down a single target, as well as pushing thanks to an AoE DoT ult that deals damage to towers. Shen is, well he's a bit underpowered ATM, but his strength is split pushing through a global TP ult and he also has an AoE taunt to give his team time to burst someone down.

Irelia, Yorick, Lee Sin. These folks usually solo top.

Irelia is a strong duelist, having a stun when she's lower health than her target, strong gap closer, line skillshot ult with heal, and true damage for AAs active + passive flat heal per attack. Yorick is high sustain and heavily minion based, designed primarily to win his lanes through sheer durability and all around strength. Lee Sin is very mobile and designed to bounce around the battlefield with 2 dash skills.

I just kind of wish that there were more 'signature' abilities in the game. I've stated this before, but a lot of the abilities in Riot's heroes are recycled, plain and simple (Just like a majority of the posts/arguments in this thread, though as it goes on, the rhetoric seems to get louder and more obnoxious). 

Yeah, that would be nice, but even among the "recycled" heroes we have so far each plays fairly differently from any character that they "borrowed" from.

Don't get me wrong, there are aspects of League that I prefer over DotA. There's more chance for a comeback, it's less carry centric, there are scaling mage type heroes, less stalemating, and it has a somewhat less douchbaggy community- though League's is still pretty terrible. But the kits of Dota heroes are just a breath of fresh air to me.

You're one of the much more reasonable people I've replied to for the most part; i'm just getting frustrated at what seems to be a "lol sucks/lol hero design sucks" dota fanboy group that's growing here. I already can't reasonably converse on the LoL forums, and I don't wanna lose this thread...

Ok, I am willing to hear about how heroes are similar in one role in LoL, but I'd like someone to do a comparison between heroes as the post above does. Gangplank, Shyvanna, and Volibear are all bruisers (replace Gangplank with Renekton if you prefer), so they should be perfect for comparison. Or, if you want to compare mages instead, do Veigar, Cassiopeia, and Swain instead.

Let's be completely fair here: you can pick the four most different champs of any role and say

I have found the one exception, check and mate. 

but there are 91 champs, and probably a lot more are similar than are different.

Btw, it goes both ways: you can't say "all the heroes in lol are boring and unoriginal" and not only ignore how the specific kit combos produce a different character, but forget how a good percentage really ARE unique and have a lot of flavor...