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[Paul Eres]

the two most similar champs are probably lux and orianna. there are differences between them, but when i'm playing against them they feel very similar to play against

[John Sandoval]

That's not the list.

Q autoattack modifier/nuke
W misc
E gap closer
R AOE Damage

This is the setup for

Xin Zhao
Leona
Wukong
Talon
Graves
Irelia (except her Q and E are switched around)

There may be more, but these are the ones that come off the top of my head.

Though it may seem a small list, it's not the not the only issue. Other champions mostly have abilities which are recycled (though are just different enough to justify making a new character model).

That's the list.

Also, the folks who you claim to fall into the 'league sucks' camp don't actually hate League. As we've stated, we've played the damn thing for hundreds upon hundreds of games. Some have just moved onto something else that offers a change of pace. Perhaps their statements are more of a reaction to you than the actual game or something, idk. They're hardly bad/unreasonable people once you get to talk to them.

[RCIX]

Q autoattack modifier/nuke
W misc
E gap closer
R AOE Damage

This is the setup for

Xin Zhao
Leona
Wukong
Talon
Graves
Irelia (except her Q and E are switched around)

There may be more, but these are the ones that come off the top of my head.

Well, aside from the fact that you list Q as an autoattack modifier OR nuke, and W as "misc", which can make all the difference alone in how a champ plays, this:

(unique parts are in italic)

Q autoattack modifier/nuke

Xin Zhao: Modifies next 3 attacks to do bonus damage, third strike knocks opponent into the air
Leona: flat bonus damage plus stun
Wukong: flat bonus damage plus armor reduction
Talon: flat bonus damage plus bleed/semi reveal
Graves: cone AoE nuke that deals more damage at close range
Irelia: single target nuke plus slow (stuns if target has more health % than irelia)

(didn't bother with italics here since each skill is *gasp* unique to the champ)

W misc

Xin Zhao: Passive AS increase, active doubles AS increase and makes attacks reduce cooldown
Leona: Armor/MRes increase, delayed aoe nuke (more time out of amror/mres if the nuke hits anything)
Wukong: Stealth/decoy generator that deals delayed damage
Talon: AoE cone nuke that hits twice and slows
Graves: AoE light nuke that removes vision for/slows enemies in AoE for a while
Irelia: Passive flat heal on AA, active true damage on AA

E gap closer

Xin Zhao: gap closer with AoE slow
Leona: Line AoE damage, teleports to furthest champion hit
Wukong: gap closer, hits additional 2 targets, grants AS bonus
Talon: blink, teleports to other side of target, silences and applies temporary damage amp
Graves: short dash with large AS steroid
Irelia: gap closer, CD refreshes/mana refund when killing target

R AOE Damage

Xin Zhao: AoE nuke, deals flat plus percentage of current health, xin gains armor/mres per champion hit
Leona: AoE nuke, stuns target in center, strong slow to all other enemies hit
Wukong: Aoe DoT with increasing MS bonus and knockup on initial collision.
Talon: Projectile-based AoE damage, deals damage on release, stealths and grants +MS bonus, blades return to Talon on stealth dropping dealing more damage
Graves: Line skillshot single target nuke, at end of range or upon champ impact switches to cone AoE with less damage
Irelia: 4 charge line skillshot nuke, free percentage heal for each target hit

Even if you compared just Leona/Wukong/Talon (the characters that really do conform to the template you listed), a combination of the specific variations of each skill and the base stats of each character result in not only different roles, but different playstyles within each role. This is what I've been saying virtually since the discussion started, and no one has acknowledged that. =/ For instance, I'm good at Talon, but those skills don't transfer to either Leona or Wukong since each requires a different playstyle (coincidentally, because they're in different roles). And they certainly don't translate to Xin, Graves, or Irelia...

In any case, you listed like 6 champions out of 90. I thought the problem was with well over 50%.

Also, the folks who you claim to fall into the 'league sucks' camp don't actually hate League. As we've stated, we've played the damn thing for hundreds upon hundreds of games. Some have just moved onto something else that offers a change of pace. Perhaps their statements are more of a reaction to you than the actual game or something, idk. They're hardly bad/unreasonable people once you get to talk to them.

It gets annoying to hear "another boring champ with recycled abilities, zzz riot", which a couple of the people I'm referring to have stated about Volibear and Sejuani (among others). A change of pace is fine and all that, but when you start presenting your opinions as facts... (yes, I know I've done this a few times)

[Nillo]

less stalemating

Can you define this term? Do you mean "situations where nothing is happening"? Or a situation where attacking the enemy first would be disadvantageous for both teams?

If it means what I think it means, I see this happening a lot more in League than in Dota. Firstly, you have brush. The brush is simply designed for sitting in it until someone comes by and you can kill them.

Secondly, and this is admittedly a little more complicated point, most of the abilities in League are fairly "soft" in that they have smaller impact on things overall. The skills aren't as gamebreaking, crowd control is weaker, mobility is weaker, and so on. A lot of abilities just do damage and nothing else. This means that battles more often degrade into a war of attrition near turrets where you essentially poke the enemy team with whatever ranged skills you may have until someone is hurt enough to go back to base.

Maybe it just seems like there are more stalemates in DotA because games generally last much longer. It's hard to really finish a game quickly unless you have multiple pushing heroes and a solid strategy with them.

[John Sandoval]

I guess I used the wrong word.

I dunno, games just seem to last a really long time.

[Nillo]

I dunno, games just seem to last a really long time.

This is true. It undeniably takes more time to play a Dota game than a League game. However, I wouldn't say that a short game is objectively better than a long one; the enjoyment depends on a lot of other unrelated factors.

[Faust06]

I tried this recently and it seems like a pretty laid-back game. I watched my friend absolutely dominate with Wukong, who seems fun to use.

[IzzyReggie]

single target nuke ult. Graves has 3 AoE nukes

I'm going to not respond to anything else because I'm pretty much refuted and the conversation has moved on (you... you win. I was wrong), but this is kind of a pet peeve of mine.

What kind of nuke is it if it's single target? How can a nuke not be AoE? When in the history of it's use did "nuke" stop meaning "big blast of damage" and begin meaning "any big damage"?

I mean, which of these two images in a "nuke":

OR

I don't mean to just attack you, RCIX, but I have noticed this trend within the last year or so where anything that does considerable damage is called a "nuke", single target or not. I dunno, it's a huge pet peeve of mine. I just get really mad when people on the internet start talking about Veigar's ult being a nuke.

Remember kids: Nukes, by their very nature, are AoE.

(At this point, somebody is going to point out I'm hilariously wrong and "nuke" has always referred to any large burst of damage in online games, because that's the trend of everything I've posted in this thread so far  )

[RCIX]

(At this point, somebody is going to point out I'm hilariously wrong and "nuke" has always referred to any large burst of damage in online games, because that's the trend of everything I've posted in this thread so far  )

You pretty much nailed it here. What do you think of when you think nuke (aside from "large area of effect")? Damage. Lots and lots of damage. Thus, high burst ended up being termed "nuke". It's like when you say "near miss"; the literal meaning of that would be that you hit, but just barely, but it's commonly applied to say that you just barely missed.

[Nillo]

Nukes are skills that directly deal a lot of damage, and generally as their primary purpose and not as a side-effect of other things. You could argue that "that's not what nuke meant originally", but the same could be said of many things. For example, you don't actually roleplay in most "roleplaying games". Language evolves, deal with it.

[TobiasW]

Well, it's just used in League of Legends (no, I don't think the list is good, but the description fits) for a very high-damage burst. I dunnow if it is used in other games too.

edit: Slow TobiasW is slow

[allen]

call the word police someone is using the term 'nuke' incorrectly.

who gives a fuck? what a shitty pet peeve to have.

[IzzyReggie]

i give enough of  fuck about it to embarrass myself in front of the entire internet and now you're making me feel real shitty and self-conscious about my neurosis

there are tears streaming all down my face and shirt and I don't think I can stop crying now

all because I wanted clarification on the usage of a word

For example, you don't actually roleplay in most "roleplaying games". Language evolves, deal with it.

IMHO, in the realm of video games, RPG never meant that any roleplaying was involved. it was a label to score the tabletop crowd and it worked. I understand words evolve but sometimes words have really shitty evolutions. Like, Fat Man didn't kill just one dude or blow up one building, it destroyed everything. in the entire world. And now we can say "Paris totally nuked Achilles"

[RCIX]

They're hardly bad/unreasonable people once you get to talk to them.

*cough*

call the word police someone is using the term 'nuke' incorrectly.

who gives a fuck? what a shitty pet peeve to have.

For example, you don't actually roleplay in most "roleplaying games". Language evolves, deal with it.

*cough*

[John Sandoval]

on skype or something