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[Pandara_RA!]

what.... the.... hell..


Is that tiamat thing a bug?

nope lol

[Nillo]

>tiamat is finally useful on a hero
>"is this a bug?"

[InfiniteStateMachine]

Well just did my first non bot jungle. Got the highest score but more importantly I think I at least played my role semi competently. Kept my wards down, ganked when one of the lanes was pushed past 75% (usually successful). Even managed to successfully counter jungle an aggressive amumu.

After playing a real game I didn't really feel the need for ghost. Exhaust was definitely enough. Her ult certainly did feel like flash with extended range.

The game ran long so I had a chance to get a couple Tiamat's. It was certainly noticeable but I ended up trading one in for a madreds because they started building very tanky-hp.

>tiamat is finally useful on a hero
>"is this a bug?"

Kind of reminds me of sunfire stacking. I guess what I meant to ask was "was that intentional by design?"

[Pandara_RA!]

Well just did my first non bot jungle. Got the highest score but more importantly I think I at least played my role semi competently. Kept my wards down, ganked when one of the lanes was pushed past 75% (usually successful). Even managed to successfully counter jungle an aggressive amumu.

After playing a real game I didn't really feel the need for ghost. Exhaust was definitely enough. Her ult certainly did feel like flash with extended range.

The game ran long so I had a chance to get a couple Tiamat's. It was certainly noticeable but I ended up trading one in for a madreds because they started building very tanky-hp.

>tiamat is finally useful on a hero
>"is this a bug?"

Kind of reminds me of sunfire stacking. I guess what I meant to ask was "was that intentional by design?"

NEVER EVER GET MADRIDS, it's the worst item in the game

[John Sandoval]

Currently 10/0 w/l with Varus. His kit is just really good. An AD carry with burst AND CC... what could go wrong?

[Pandara_RA!]

Currently 10/0 w/l with Varus. His kit is just really good. An AD carry with burst AND CC... what could go wrong?

no escape

[John Sandoval]

yeah, that's his only downfall

[InfiniteStateMachine]

Well just did my first non bot jungle. Got the highest score but more importantly I think I at least played my role semi competently. Kept my wards down, ganked when one of the lanes was pushed past 75% (usually successful). Even managed to successfully counter jungle an aggressive amumu.

After playing a real game I didn't really feel the need for ghost. Exhaust was definitely enough. Her ult certainly did feel like flash with extended range.

The game ran long so I had a chance to get a couple Tiamat's. It was certainly noticeable but I ended up trading one in for a madreds because they started building very tanky-hp.

>tiamat is finally useful on a hero
>"is this a bug?"

Kind of reminds me of sunfire stacking. I guess what I meant to ask was "was that intentional by design?"

NEVER EVER GET MADRIDS, it's the worst item in the game

I do rarely get it. I got it on a teammates advice. It seemed logical because of the hp building. I guess just getting something with AD/Arpen has a better return?

[allen]

NEVER EVER GET MADRIDS, it's the worst item in the game

disagree. Soul Shroud/Manamune/Tiamat are by far much worse.

Bloodrazor is actually a pretty good item. If you want a late game 6th slot damage source item, on someone like Udyr/Nocturne/Trundle or other bruiser auto attackers with attack speed steroids, it's a good choice.

What other item would you get on those heroes that could do as much damage as a Bloodrazor? Keep in mind it has to fit in one slot. Bloodrazor has 40 attack damage, 40% attack speed, and the 4%hp magic damage per hit. Say you're fighting an Ashe with 1800hp-that's 40+72 extra damage before resistances. That's more damage than a fully stacked Bloodthirster, never mind the increase in attack speed.

I can't think of any item that is a better use of the last slot for tanks/bruisers who want to deal some late game damage. The only downside is the price and it's stupid buildup. I like the Dominion version's build up which is just pickaxe + recurve bow, though I don't like it's inferior stats.

[Pandara_RA!]

NEVER EVER GET MADRIDS, it's the worst item in the game

disagree. Soul Shroud/Manamune/Tiamat are by far much worse.

Bloodrazor is actually a pretty good item. If you want a late game 6th slot damage source item, on someone like Udyr/Nocturne/Trundle or other bruiser auto attackers with attack speed steroids, it's a good choice.

What other item would you get on those heroes that could do as much damage as a Bloodrazor? Keep in mind it has to fit in one slot. Bloodrazor has 40 attack damage, 40% attack speed, and the 4%hp magic damage per hit. Say you're fighting an Ashe with 1800hp-that's 40+72 extra damage before resistances. That's more damage than a fully stacked Bloodthirster, never mind the increase in attack speed.

I can't think of any item that is a better use of the last slot for tanks/bruisers who want to deal some late game damage. The only downside is the price and it's stupid buildup. I like the Dominion version's build up which is just pickaxe + recurve bow, though I don't like it's inferior stats.

It is the worst item in the game because for the cost it's stats given are in the category of AD and magic damage. It's cost efficacy is always worse than any other major item as you can never benefit from both armor and magic pen without a cost investment, (void staff/Last whisper).

Even on hybrids it's terrible because it doesn't scale with AP rather it scales with magic pen meaning you are forced to buy magic pen for it to be of use, all and any hybrid builds are by concept instantly outclasses by a normal straight build.

as for a single item to fill the final slot?

GA
IE
Last whisper/void would all produce higher DPS due to it's mismatch scaling even for the cheaper price.

[allen]

what the fuck. I'm not talking about buying it on carries though, I meant specifically on tanks and bruisers who want some late game damage. did you even read my post?

[Pandara_RA!]

what the fuck. I'm not talking about buying it on carries though, I meant specifically on tanks and bruisers who want some late game damage. did you even read my post?

I'm not talking about carries either, even as bruisers they dont take advantage of madrids. unless they are investing in magic pen. the % damage is a waste of money even on high hp targets. damage wise as a boost.

[allen]

even without magic pen or armor pen the targets they are focusing won't have very much mr anyways. tanks/bruisers don't run magic pen but still run wit's end all the time, you think they would buy it if it didn't have the 42 magic damage? hell no they wouldn't.

bloodrazor is like a super wit's end. a perfect last slot damage item, you won't get any similar boost from any other item. IE? useless without crit chance and attack speed to back it up. last whisper? what use is the armor pen if you only have 40bonus ad? void staff? even if you have a lot of magic damage in your kit what is the ap for? wasted stats. none of those items compare to the amount of damage you get from one bloodrazor, assuming you built full tank.

edit with some numberz:
level 18 udyr fighting a 2000HP 125 Armor and 60 MR target over 5 seconds. gonna assume this is an ad/ap carry with relatively minimal resistances, and Udyr only has one of these items at a time:

with bloodrazor: 1362 damage
with trinity force: 1152 damage
with infinity edge: 1057 damage
with wit's end: 1034 damage
with last whisper: 899 damage
with void staff: 843 damage
with guardian angel: 677 damage

so I'd say definitely build wit's end over bloodrazor, and then in those super rare situations where you are full on items I'd sell it for a bloodrazor. still fits my argument, as a late game 6th slot damage source there is nothing better.

[Pandara_RA!]

even without magic pen or armor pen the targets they are focusing won't have very much mr anyways. tanks/bruisers don't run magic pen but still run wit's end all the time, you think they would buy it if it didn't have the 42 magic damage? hell no they wouldn't.

bloodrazor is like a super wit's end. a perfect last slot damage item, you won't get any similar boost from any other item. IE? useless without crit chance and attack speed to back it up. last whisper? what use is the armor pen if you only have 40bonus ad? void staff? even if you have a lot of magic damage in your kit what is the ap for? wasted stats. none of those items compare to the amount of damage you get from one bloodrazor, assuming you built full tank.

edit with some numberz:
level 18 udyr fighting a 2000HP 125 Armor and 60 MR target over 5 seconds. gonna assume this is an ad/ap carry with relatively minimal resistances, and Udyr only has one of these items at a time:

with bloodrazor: 1362 damage
with trinity force: 1152 damage
with infinity edge: 1057 damage
with wit's end: 1034 damage
with last whisper: 899 damage
with void staff: 843 damage
with guardian angel: 677 damage

so I'd say definitely build wit's end over bloodrazor, and then in those super rare situations where you are full on items I'd sell it for a bloodrazor. still fits my argument, as a late game 6th slot damage source there is nothing better.

um whats your full udyr build I think thats where the confusion is from?

minial resists is about 75-100armor 80-90 magic resist on ad carries typically, and even more if you have a support that boosts that number. they get more magic resist from their QSS

[allen]

when I did those calculations I just assumed that the only item he had was bloodrazor. but if you mean my typical build...it's usually something like merc treads/ninja tabi, wit's end, frozen mallet, randuin's omen, qss, guardian angel

99.9% of the time I usually only get to randuin's omen or qss (prioritize those depending on what I need). but if I ever fill up with 6 items I would sell wit's end for bloodrazor. this is my generic tanky dps jungler build, obviously favoring on the side of tanky.

I could redo those numbers taking 90mr or whatever into account but it wouldn't make a huge difference to my overall point. and that is bloodrazor is the best single item you can buy for late game damage if you have no other damage items.

edit: I take that back, trinity force is actually stronger if you can make use of that proc. that technically may be the better use of that last slot on champs that can optimally use the proc, but it's really hard to factor that into calculations.