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[halken]

Hey guys, I don't post here much (I really should though, I love the strength of this community) but I was reading an old thread on the selectbutton forum that got me thinking about the term/phrase "ludo-narrative dissonance".

I think this phrase is interesting but I think there is a problem here and that  problem comes from the word dissonance. I think some of the members in the above thread said that dissonance more or less can be an artistic device. I have to say I totally agree. In many other forms of art, dissonance is used in that exact way so I thought maybe this phrase is a little premature.

I then looked into the world of Diegesis. I also looked at the very same style in the form of cinema. For example, in the sound department of a film, the crew operates on two planes, diegetic sound and non-diegetic sound, here are some formal definitions:

Diegetic sound
Sound whose source is visible on the screen or whose source is implied to be present by the action of the film:

voices of characters
sounds made by objects in the story
music represented as coming from instruments in the story space ( = source music)
Diegetic sound is any sound presented as originated from source within the film's world
Digetic sound can be either on screen or off screen depending on whatever its source is within the frame or outside the frame.

Another term for diegetic sound is actual sound.

 

Non-diegetic sound

Sound whose source is neither visible on the screen nor has been implied to be present in the action:

narrator's commentary
sound effects which is added for the dramatic effect
mood music
Non-diegetic sound is represented as coming from the a source outside story space.
The distinction between diegetic or non-diegetic sound depends on our understanding of the conventions of film viewing and listening.  We know of that certain sounds are represented as coming from the story world, while others are  represented as coming from outside the space of the story events.  A play with diegetic and non-diegetic conventions can be used to create ambiguity (horror), or to surprise the audience (comedy).

Another term for non-diegetic sound is commentary sound.

I thought that what if you applied this same concept to video game stories, perhaps we could help buffer out some of these inconsistent uses of terminology.

If we look at the definition of narrative:

–noun
1.
a story or account of events, experiences, or the like, whether true or fictitious.

Would the terms diegetic narrative and non-diegetic narrative be in some ways, more accurate in defining these separated forms of story-telling? Would this also help to see that they can also be harmoniously amalgamated together? If non-diegetic narrative is the story told in play (i.e. non-existent to player's avatar) and the diegetic narrative is told in sequence (i.e. existent to player's avatar) then wouldn't it be easier to see that dissonance is a story device that operates independently to the above forms of narrative?

Would these terms help us as designers to see that both forms of narrative can be elegantly woven together to make a profound experience that needn't be ostracized by narratologists and ludo-narrativists due to this ideology that one is superior than the other?

What do you guys think?

[SundownKid]

I looked up "diegesis" as a narrative term and found this:

In role-playing games diegesis includes all the "in-game" parts of the story, both those that are and aren't actually played out. However, rules or system elements that are used to resolve what does and doesn't happen in the imagined situation are typically "non-diegetic".

Apparently it isn't quite what you're describing, since any and every element of the plot that is actually planned out would technically be diegetic.

[Paul Eres]

this is a good post and i like the sentiment but since i disagree that there's any dissonance at all between story and gameplay i can't really add much. i think any supposed dissonance is basically just an artifact of the theories of nerds who hate reading, since games with stories do work fine and have a harmony and have been that way for ages; there's no more dissonance between story and gameplay than there is between graphics and sound

[halken]

I looked up "diegesis" as a narrative term and found this:

In role-playing games diegesis includes all the "in-game" parts of the story, both those that are and aren't actually played out. However, rules or system elements that are used to resolve what does and doesn't happen in the imagined situation are typically "non-diegetic".

Apparently it isn't quite what you're describing, since any and every element of the plot that is actually planned out would technically be diegetic.

Yea, I've misinterpreted these terms.

Damn!
 

[C.A. Sinner]

The fourth wall is the dividing line between diegetic and non-diegetic elements. If you use an element both diegetically and non-diegetically, you're breaking the fourth wall.