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[[RM8]]

Also, 'upmarket' and 'downmarket' pretty much describe the quality of a product, not its 'barrier to entry' or price, Nintendo games are not any cheaper and actually take ages to drop their prices (even if they are cheaper to PRODUCE). That guy just wanted a wall-of-text excuse to say Mario, Zelda and Metroid are bad games and that Nintendo is doomed.

People who don't like Nintendo love predicting Nintendo's death.

[Richard Kain]

People who don't like Nintendo love predicting Nintendo's death.

Yes, a practice that has been going on for some time, and has never made any sense.

Nintendo has always been one of the most profitable video game companies in existence, even at the lowest points of their popularity. As a corporate entity, Nintendo is fiscally conservative and incredibly stable.

Some people are pointing to the Wii's current decline in sales as the end of days for Nintendo. Even though they aren't selling as much as they used to, they are still selling Wii's. (in numbers that compare favorably with the competition) And let's not forget that this decline in sales happened after Nintendo had sold over 80 million Wii's globally. And then of course there is the fact that they made a profit off of every last one of those units. (while their competition traditionally takes a loss on hardware sold)

How badly is a slight downturn in sales going to affect Nintendo when they are perched comfortably on top of a pile of cash that makes the competition look pitiful?

[s0]

Nintendo doesn't drop the prices of their first-party Wii and DS titles if they're successful enough. They're significantly cheaper than new PS360 games though (at least where I live).

[[RM8]]

Here New Super Mario Bros. Wii and Portal 2 cost the same 

[s0]

The console of versions Portal 2 are 50 Euros *here* (according to Amazon) and Nintendo games are usually 40 Euros *here in Europe.*

note the text i bolded and adorned with asterisks

[[RM8]]

Since you are using Euros, in Mexico both Portal 2 (console) and NSMBWii are 59 Euros (999 Mexican pesos) 

And until very recently, games as old as Twilight Princess were the same.

[AshfordPride]

USA here.  I'm pretty sure you average Gamestop is still selling Melee for more than most 360/PS3 games.  

Or was, I could've sworn it was hovering around thirty dollars for the longest time.  A first gen Gamecube game, insanely plentiful, still so expensive.  For comparison, I got the F-Zero Gamecube game for three dollars.

[Trevor Dunbar]

Please Nintendo, please Wii got black and red colors last year, don't do the same with Wii U and launch with at least two colors.

Nintendo doesn't like releasing lots of colored consoles because if a color turns out to be unpopular, those are consoles it's losing money on. It fragments sales. They learned about this on the Gameboy color line with like 8-9 different skus.

I still want a transparent red 3DS though, or even just a red 3DS.


If anyone thinks the Wii-U is going to bomb, you're sadly mistaken. Once this is out with some good first party games and some casual games its going to rip sony/mircrosoft apart on sales because its brand new and all sony/microsoft will have is move, kinect, and nothing but FPS games through the eyeballs. Wii-U will be able to have all the third-party publishers on board (hopefully) putting the new controller to good use on their games.

Supposedly the Wii-U is at-least a graphics hardware generation or two above the PS3.

Also, friend codes supposedly are unified like on 3DS and you can choose what you want your code to be, much like a screen-name basically.

I can't wait to see it unveiled with games at next years E3. Nintendo really won the show this year, while Sony and Microsoft basically made me fall alseep with too many kinect games and first-person-shooters. I'm so sick of seeing guns. No more guns. Stop making games with guns. I'm going to spoon my own eyeballs out if Sony's / Microsoft's next press conferences are like this years.

[[RM8]]

What are you talking about?

I don't mind the current saturation of shooters (even if I don't like them at all), there are people who love them and will fondly remember this era. I do that with the era of platformers and fighters

Also, friend codes supposedly are unified like on 3DS

Nope, there won't be friend codes. Usernames are confirmed.

[Nix]

I've been playing inFamous from the PSN Welcome Back package. It's basically Assassin's Creed. Is there are name for games like that? Is that a genre yet?

[halk3n]

There's also another way to approach the casual vs hardcore angle more accurately when defining a game type. Let me quote a banned member from GAF:

-Downmarket software refers to software that have low barriers to entry.

-Upmarket software refers to software that have high barriers to entry.

"Barriers to entry" can be anything from the abilitiy to maneuver through two-dimensional or three-dimensional space, control schemes, user interface, uninteresting content, or overdrawn cinematic treatment. Upmarket gamers are equipped with the know-how to overcome these barriers quickly so that they can enjoy the software they play. Downmarket gamers, on the other hand, are not equipped with the know-how to overcome these barriers quickly, which often leads to frustration and lack of interest.

So, in other words, whether a game is a downmarket game or not depends entirely on how quickly a player can become satisfied, can feel like they're "kicking ass." Obviously, games like NSMB and MKWii would qualify as downmarket games. Sorry, bottles.

The most fascinating thing, to me, about using these terms is that they say nothing about a game's size or scope. Often times, we tend to think of downmarket games as being short because downmarket gamers cannot tolerate longer experiences. THIS IS NOT TRUE. Downmarket gamers don't care about scope, or challenge, or complexity, AS LONG AS THEY FEEL LIKE THEY'RE KICKING ASS, AND KICKING ASS SOON. With this in mind, a lot of games you'd think would be "hardcore" are actually "downmarket" games. Games like the original Legend of Zelda or Metroid: Zero Mission.

The key to understanding Nintendo's direction is that they're trying to remove barriers to entry while at the same time "educating" downmarket gamers to move upstream, as many others have said in this thread. They're doing this because the upmarket is where all the money is. Unfortunately for Microsoft and SONY and a lot of other gaming houses, Nintendo is changing how games are played, but they're not changing with it. pretty soon, they'll be forgotten if they don't change.

I disagree with this so much. If all the "downmarket" wants is "KICKING ASS, AND KICKING ASS SOON" then what are titles like Wii Fit, Brain Training or those Sudoku games? "upmarket"?

So I interpreted the "kicking ass soon" part to be about the amount of time it takes to engage in the core experience and satiating the player's appetite. I believe the games you mention do exactly that and then some. I also disagree with his assessment about "upmarket" games being where the money is at but this post was made 3 years ago and so I guess he has misinterpreted the climate of the industry and how it has evolved since then.

[halk3n]

People who don't like Nintendo love predicting Nintendo's death.

I certainly hope you're not painting me with that assumption.

[WelcomeToAwesomeness]

Nintendo is going to get so much of my money next year.

[[RM8]]

People who don't like Nintendo love predicting Nintendo's death.

I certainly hope you're not painting me with that assumption.

Considering how I was talking about that guy just wanting an excuse to bash Mario/Metroid/Zelda, no. I wasn't talking about you, but people who love predicting Nintendo's death since the N64 days.

So I interpreted the "kicking ass soon" part to be about the amount of time it takes to engage in the core experience and satiating the player's appetite.

Which games don't? Games with really long opening scenes? Games with unending tutorials? Because even games which take literally years for people to become really good at them (like Virtua Fighter) can be played for "instant gratification". You don't need to understand the "metagame" to enjoy most games that are deemed too hardcore, I've seen people play Tekken or Killzone like they're playing Mario Party. And then you have people breaking world records in freaking Mario Kart.

[mirosurabu]

I've been playing inFamous from the PSN Welcome Back package. It's basically Assassin's Creed. Is there are name for games like that? Is that a genre yet?

GTA-likes.

[Hangedman]

Sandboxes

[gimymblert]

open world

[DavidCaruso]

Thought the name was just "free-roaming?" Like you'd have a free-roaming 3D platformer or action game or w/e. I always thought the "sandbox" term always applied to games where there weren't any real clear preset goals, e.g. Minecraft, and the player has to "make his own fun."

[SirNiko]

I tend to apply sandbox to games that present the play with lots of mechanics they can throw together, in an attempt to create new situations possibly unintended by the developers. That's independent of exploration, but you can mix them.

Shadow of the Colossus had exploration, a tremendous world to explore with lots of little nooks and crannies to see but there wasn't much in the way of mechanics to play with - the world was mostly empty. LA Noir has a huge world like GTA and even features some exploratory side quests (film canisters, badge pursuit) but there's not as much to play with. Without weapons or world-impacting sidequests the sandbox elements are extremely muted.

By contrast you can have a game like Line Rider or Souptoys that gives the player things to play with and throw together, like toys in a sandbox. hence the name "Sandbox" game. Generally the game tries to derive longevity from the player mixing and matching things and seeing what they do. Webtoys are sandbox games without any objectives. There's nothing to explore in these games, though, except to see the interactions between the objects. It lacks a world to tour, and generally all the objects are made immediately available without searching them out in the wild.

GTA and inFamous are combination games that mix both these concepts - you have a huge world to explore and also many sandbox elements to play with. Or at least, that's how I'd go about defining them.

[gimymblert]