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[Derek]

I think anyone with a moderately successful indie game has at one point been contacted by a publisher and wants to know whether they're worth dealing with.  I thought it'd be extremely helpful if everyone posted their experiences with publishers here in this thread.  The good, the bad, and the ugly!  Let's go!

To start off, I'll name Idigicon.  Not that I've had any personal dealings with them, but we all know the sad tale of Platypus.  Screw those guys.

[moi]

I don't think that IDIGICON are more evil than any other publisher.
You just have to be careful when signing a contract, that rule is valid with everybody not only IDIGICON.
It's a matter of being educated about the problem and thinkng about the future and possible implications of every clause.

[Alec]

Calling things overrated is overrated.

[BMcC]

You just have to be careful when signing a contract, that rule is valid with everybody not only IDIGICON.

That's a good point.

I think Anthony Flack's biggest problem was ultimately Anthony Flack.  When the dust settled (has it settled yet?), he's still the one who put pen to page, you know?

Not to say he wasn't taken advantage of, of course.  But in any industry, not just games, there are folks who want to use you.  Big fish swallowing up little fish.  And as indie games grow, I think we'll have to deal with this more and more.

Think of music.  The big name A&R guy signing away the souls of enthusiastic but naive rock groups over expensive meals.

I say when dealing with any publisher, you gotta stay sharp, be educated, and for goodness' sake, get a lawyer.  At least when closing.

Fortunately, with the magic of INTERNET, savvy game developers can easily stay informed enough to avoid disaster nowadays.

[ravuya]

Crystal Interactive tried to get one of my games onboard based on nothing more than a post I had made on GDNet's announcements board with a few throwaway screenshots.

I don't know what happened to them; apparently they screwed over a few other people from what I hear (but can't confirm either way).

[DrDerekDoctors]

Ooh, I'm gonna' bring up the subject of Variant Interactive, and then run away from the post... Woohoohoo!

scarpers

[Oddbob]

Ooh, I'm gonna' bring up the subject of Variant Interactive, and then run away from the post... Woohoohoo!

scarpers

I see Splut Splut Pingu still isn't out

[Derek]

You just have to be careful when signing a contract, that rule is valid with everybody not only IDIGICON.

That's a good point.

I think Anthony Flack's biggest problem was ultimately Anthony Flack.  When the dust settled (has it settled yet?), he's still the one who put pen to page, you know?

Not to say he wasn't taken advantage of, of course.  But in any industry, not just games, there are folks who want to use you.  Big fish swallowing up little fish.  And as indie games grow, I think we'll have to deal with this more and more.

Think of music.  The big name A&R guy signing away the souls of enthusiastic but naive rock groups over expensive meals.

I say when dealing with any publisher, you gotta stay sharp, be educated, and for goodness' sake, get a lawyer.  At least when closing.

Fortunately, with the magic of INTERNET, savvy game developers can easily stay informed enough to avoid disaster nowadays.

I agree - ultimately it was his fault and there's nothing Anthony can legally do now, of course.  But damn, Idigicon knew they were riding him from the outset, and the fact that they've completely cut him out of the loop (when they could have easily tossed him a bone) is pretty cold-blooded.  There must be a publisher out there that actually cares about the developers whose games they're selling?

[DrDerekDoctors]

Ooh, I'm gonna' bring up the subject of Variant Interactive, and then run away from the post... Woohoohoo!

scarpers

I see Splut Splut Pingu still isn't out

*checks temperature in hell*

Nope, still ain't out.


Ooh, and ta' for the position whichever mysterious moderator put it in there!

[Anthony Flack]

Gee, I've been contacted by so many interested publishy people by now. I'm awfully reluctant to agree to anything these days, but soon enough I'm going to have to start making deals. I can't do everything myself (it's hard enough just worrying about making the games) and I've seen the good that can come from having people rushing about energetically doing things on your behalf. Sure, I didn't have any say (or get any money) for Platypus on the PSP but the one very positive part of that experience for me was having it happen without me doing any work. So there is definitely an element of that I would like to tap into in future - I mean, I can't even keep my own website up-to-date so I'm definitely going to need with some of this stuff. Just as other people clearly need me to tell them that they've gone and done things all wrong and need to do it again.

I will say though, that the more I have seen of publisher-funded game development, the more I am convinced that it is best to get the game made first, before anyone else goes sticking their nose in. Besides, that's the fairest way for everyone. If the game is already finished, publishers know what they're getting and you know what you're giving away. I would never have sold Platypus so cheap if I'd known that it was going to take me 18 cocking months to finish it. And nor did I suspect that I would still be working on the follow-up game nearly 5 years later. You get into all kinds of woe when you start trying to sell people your promises; I'm glad I'm not beholden to anyone at the moment.

Still, the time will come soon enough when I will have to be brave and start making business-type decisions again. Rrrr.

[ZombiePixel]

All My Experiences...

Big Fish Games - If you have a game suitable for their market you'd be a fool not to use them.  They will get you a lot of downloads so if you're confident your game converts well you could do nicely.  Mine didn't convert well and was eventually dropped from their catalog.  I hold no grudge over it, though.  They know their market and if it's your market as well then go for it.  I found Big Fish to be approachable, helpful and they paid on time.

Real Arcade - They wouldn't take my game, but at least they were very honest in their review and assessment of their own players.  My game (a "casualized" Money Idol Exchanger clone) required basic math skills and that's just too much for casual gamers.  No shit - that's what they told me.  Can't speak for their publishing but their product evaluation was spot on.  If you can take that kind of honesty it's like a free market assessment for the potential of your game.

Game Fiesta - Not bad.  Again my game was completely wrong for the casual market and their traffic numbers are lower than the big portals but I was able to make a bit of money.  I would almost guess that their audience is a little more "puzzle" oriented and less "braindead clicky".  They report regularly and paid on time.

Game Thoughts - An exercise in my own personal stupidity.  The lesson here is DO NOT sign with an upstart distributor.  It would have been much better for me to distribute my own product and not let half my sales go down the drain to pay for a couple of guys who were just learning the ropes.  You publish with someone big or go your own way.  They no longer exist.

Xing Interactive - This is painful because I used to defend them when criticisms came up.  My first deal with Xing went great.  It ended up being one of those buyout deals like Anthony Flack went for but the buy-out was my idea because I wanted free of the product.  So with a small wad of cash (paid for my new computer and a couple month's rent) I was happy and thought they were great to deal with.

Since then Xing has effed-off with 3 of my games as a puzzle collection that never materialized and not a single e-mail, update or royalty payment in over a year.  I won't be doing business with them again.

Idigicon - Dodged a bullet there.  We never got to the point of distribution because their team moves as fast as the clerks at the DMV.  Many a night I burned Gearge Bray in effigy over unanswered e-mails and phone calls. They have a history of visiting bulletin boards with veiled "we'll call our lawyer if you say anything bad" speak.

Turbo Squid - they don't sell games, but if you sell art assets like models or textures they are a good market place.  My texture collection has been going for 6 years now, kicking an extra hundred bucks or so into my pocket every month.

BMT Micro - Not a publisher but a transaction provider.  I like them the best even though they are also one of the most expensive % wise.  I think you get the service you pay for.

Umm...yeah, that's about it.  The lesson for me (after everything I've been through) is that my time would have been better spent building traffic to my own gaming site rather than dealing with all these publishers.  It kills me to say, but Pavlina was right.

[DrDerekDoctors]

Excellent post there ZombiePixel! Haha, and I'm sure you had to choke that Pavlina compliment out.

[addictive247]

All of the following I've dealt with:

Superior Interactive
Big Fish Games
Manifesto Games *
Cosmi (Europe)
Alten8
Boonty
Game Fiesta
Jolly Good Games
Xing

Out of the above I'd only deal with Superior Interactive, Big Fish, Alten8 and Cosmi again.

* Manifesto - it's too early to say but initial contact and relationship has been very good. Hopefully add them to my list of people to continue to deal with.

[Prospero]

My only experience in the realm of indie publishing was a mistake, really. Some fellow from the now-defunct "Binary People" made me have delusions of grandeur by offering me a publishing contract for a game I had made as a personal hobby, and it seemed like I had nothing to lose, so I tried it. However many copies of my game got sold (I never managed to get any exact figures), I never saw the money and got no reply by e-mail or phone Never again - it's the freeware road for me!

[cwboyer]

Ooh, I'm gonna' bring up the subject of Variant Interactive, and then run away from the post... Woohoohoo!

scarpers

I'm flattered that someone would think to bring my lil' ol' company up. But I'm sad that it's in a negative way.

I don't know how other companies interface with the press (enthusiast, bloggers and otherwise) because I'm not really privy to that, but I do at least know what goes on behind our doors.

Suffice it to say that we don't make the details of our business relationships with other companies public - that's bad form in my opinion - and that seems to be something people like to hear about.

As it is, the best way to find out the truth about something, speaking as a former journalist, is to ask people. To date, the only press groups who've ever contacted us on anything were Play Magazine and Kotaku.

I'll be the first to admit we've made some missteps in the past as we learn better and better practices. I started the business seven years ago in my college dorm room with a friend, to be a developer ourselves, before realizing we could try to help other developers along the way and trying to expand what we wanted to do. But the outright IRE that floats around, I'll be honest, I think it's a little unwarranted and it gets under my skin a little.

Anyway, I don't want to look like I troll boards looking for our company name. I just read TIGsource because I've found out about some great, fun games on there and wanted to check out the community forum. Funny this is the first thread I read. =)

Well. I don't want to force a welcome here, it'd probably just be dodgy so I'll bow out and let y'all say what you will. Maybe you'll see things that'll change your mind in the future.

Best regards,
Cristopher Boyer
CEO, Variant Co.

[Derek]

This thread is sooooo paying off!  Great post, ZombiePixel.  Exactly what I wanted to see.

Gee, I've been contacted by so many interested publishy people by now. I'm awfully reluctant to agree to anything these days, but soon enough I'm going to have to start making deals. I can't do everything myself (it's hard enough just worrying about making the games) and I've seen the good that can come from having people rushing about energetically doing things on your behalf. Sure, I didn't have any say (or get any money) for Platypus on the PSP but the one very positive part of that experience for me was having it happen without me doing any work. So there is definitely an element of that I would like to tap into in future - I mean, I can't even keep my own website up-to-date so I'm definitely going to need with some of this stuff. Just as other people clearly need me to tell them that they've gone and done things all wrong and need to do it again.

I will say though, that the more I have seen of publisher-funded game development, the more I am convinced that it is best to get the game made first, before anyone else goes sticking their nose in. Besides, that's the fairest way for everyone. If the game is already finished, publishers know what they're getting and you know what you're giving away. I would never have sold Platypus so cheap if I'd known that it was going to take me 18 cocking months to finish it. And nor did I suspect that I would still be working on the follow-up game nearly 5 years later. You get into all kinds of woe when you start trying to sell people your promises; I'm glad I'm not beholden to anyone at the moment.

Still, the time will come soon enough when I will have to be brave and start making business-type decisions again. Rrrr.

Anthony, that is some great advice (getting the game done first)!  The whole Playtpus fiasco I think is a great lesson to new developers.  We learn from mistakes, and no one can fault you for thinking it was a great deal at the time.  Your attitude about the whole thing is also really inspirational, I mean it.

Regarding being brave and making business-type decisions... I'm hoping that this community will make those types of decisions easier for everyone!  Let's keep discussing... we'll soon make sure that no indie developer gets screwed again.

[DrDerekDoctors]

Ooh, I'm gonna' bring up the subject of Variant Interactive, and then run away from the post... Woohoohoo!

scarpers

I'm flattered that someone would think to bring my lil' ol' company up. But I'm sad that it's in a negative way.
<snip>

Tbh, I'm not sure how many of us *could* say anything as there's been precious little actually released by Variant as far as I can tell, but that's part of the problem. I mean where is Cave Story PSP, eh?

[vitaminNewB]

I have to seriously 2nd what Derek said above.
Pretty much summed up the feelings about what you did Anthony (and everyone above too), as far as sharing your experiences and all.  But, I just wanted to say for myself that i salute you indeed. 

Very brave thing to do.  People who actually have the guts to spread the word about a fault are a dime a dozen.  That's one thing that I do love about game developers who do postmortems.  The honesty.  It's brutal and gut wrenching in some cases.  But still completely honest.  Keep it up man!

[cwboyer]

Ooh, I'm gonna' bring up the subject of Variant Interactive, and then run away from the post... Woohoohoo!

scarpers

I'm flattered that someone would think to bring my lil' ol' company up. But I'm sad that it's in a negative way.
<snip>

Tbh, I'm not sure how many of us *could* say anything as there's been precious little actually released by Variant as far as I can tell, but that's part of the problem. I mean where is Cave Story PSP, eh?

It's being worked on. We said "2007" and it's something we'll try to stick to, but I suppose in retrospect, it would have been more prudent to wait a little longer before saying something. To be completely frank, I personally got excited because Cave Story is probably in my top ten favorites, and it was an amateur move to speak up so soon. I put the word out myself, (on our website, someone else discovered that and put it on Garage Games' website and it spiraled from there, to this date we haven't set any press releases or any other actual news for a reason) so whatever comes from doing so, I'll gladly suck it up and take it.

That said, as I told "Florian" at Kotaku awhile back, we don't release a lot of news because when we do, it's either grumbling or straight unfounded rumormongering and accusations (hackusations?) and as far as I'm concerned, I've mandated in the company that we don't announce anything until it's 90% ready from this point forward. At least until there's a little more public goodwill. Like I said, the nastiness stings a little bit, whether I like it to or not. I suppose that's part of the business, though.

We're behind another project which we'll be announcing soon, and I hope people enjoy that. It's the first step into something new and cool and with any luck, folks will see it the same way I do and that will be fun.

Anyway, enough of the blah blah blah from me. This forum looks like it's got some good resources here, I hope nobody will run me out on a rail if I try to contribute. I recently became chairman of the IGDA chapter around here, and things that I pick up here and there, I'd love to share, and vice versa – I'll wager you guys have some great stories that local developers in my neck of the woods could stand to learn from.

Your pal,
-cb

[DrDerekDoctors]

It's being worked on. We said "2007" and it's something we'll try to stick to, but I suppose in retrospect, it would have been more prudent to wait a little longer before saying something. To be completely frank, I personally got excited because Cave Story is probably in my top ten favorites, and it was an amateur move to speak up so soon. I put the word out myself, (on our website, someone else discovered that and put it on Garage Games' website and it spiraled from there, to this date we haven't set any press releases or any other actual news for a reason) so whatever comes from doing so, I'll gladly suck it up and take it.

While I know some people who have bad things to say, personally Variant has come across as well-meaning amateurs to me so far and certainly not bad people. I think the whole situation about whether Pixel authorised PSP Cave Story blew up with loads of misinformation being bandied about by various people and a *serious* case of Japanese whispers* (and I'm still not clear on the truth of the matter - although obviously the only result I want to hear is that he's getting a big wodge of cash and the first credit in the game).

But anyway, I like the idea of a company putting out the best of the indie world onto real machine if it means the authors are rewarded for their efforts and John Q Public realises the wealth of excellent titles around rather than just seeing a few high-profile ones who's faces might fit, but which possibly don't play well.



* sorry - it's the writer in me.