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[shig]

this video has a download link to the OST in the description

[saturdaymorning]

After extensive playtime on both versions, and aside from the longer load times, I'm finding the 360 version to be a better online experience.

I'm still playing Filia/Cerebella, but I'm thinking about adding Parasoul into the mix with Egret Bike. The assist itself isn't the greatest, but I need something to cover Filia's non-existent long range game. Don't really feel like using Double. She's got that ass-ist, but she just looks gross. Yall got any ideas?

[saturdaymorning]

So here's some in-depth vids on game mechanics and character specifics brought to you by MikeZ and UltraChen.








Level 3 Focus Ep.8-2
Level 3 Focus Ep.8-3
Level 3 Focus Ep.8-4

[Trevor Dunbar]

I can't get into this game. I dunno.

Something about the readability between the characters, the background, and all the insanity happening on the screen at once really throws me off. It's almost too rich.

No in-game move list doesn't really bother me because I don't even have a stick.

The tutorials seem kind-of cruel in that it counts up your successes on a task, but takes them all away if you fail just once.

The animation is really great, and I really like that they held-on to their own style, but It's just not for me.

[Kramlack]

Something about the readability between the characters, the background, and all the insanity happening on the screen at once really throws me off. It's almost too rich.

I can't say I've noticed this at all, thankfully. It all seems pretty readable to me.

No in-game move list doesn't really bother me because I don't even have a stick.

I was actually bothered with this. Not "Boycott the game" bothered, but it was unfortunate. Thankfully it's being patched in soon, and from what I've heard, the pdf move lists look incredible.

The tutorials seem kind-of cruel in that it counts up your successes on a task, but takes them all away if you fail just once.

While I was doing the tutorials, I absolutely hated this, but looking back, I'm thankful. It's easy to go through a hard tutorial and then forgetting about it, but when you're constantly having to do it over and over, it sort of get's pounded into your head.

The animation is really great, and I really like that they held-on to their own style, but It's just not for me.

I've heard this from a few people. Everyone has different tastes, so it's all good.

[shig]

It's weird that you complain about readability because when compared to the typical Marvel game this looks much cleaner. No meter below the screen, no huge flashy red X in the middle of everything, no assist counter, the camera is programmed to never go up so much that a grounded character goes offscreen, there aren't so many effects nor attacks that have a huge range or fill the screen so much, among many other things.

[JWK5]

I think he's referring to the way the colors of the characters and the colors of the background blend a bit due to the character tinting.

[jotapeh]

Honestly, I'm terrible at fighting games but the move list is really painfully simple.. there is almost nothing aside from quarter circle + buttons.

[Pandara_RA!]

(fighting games aren't really designed to be revolutionary)

what

Going to pull a Dragonmaw pulling a Paul.

I think the genre stopping being revolutionary when the sales stopped coming in take a look at a very short glimce history of fighting games

1. Street Fighter came in the scene with specials.
2. MvC popularized the Tag system.
3. Tekken added quick tag system.
4. Virtual fighter had that AI.
5. Soul Caliber introduced the weapon system.

Then fighting games kinda just started falling off the market, thinking back I'd say every new IP that was popular in the fighting game scene were ones that DID innovate in a form or another.

When we stopped seeing such strong innovation was when the market for fighting games dropped, I guess it's just risky to make a new fighting game IP without proven or predictable sales, but with the rebirth of some of the popularity of fighting games seen with MvC3 and Streetfighter 4 I think the industry may yet again allow for a new IP to come into the market that is truly different.

[shig]

 Yeah, there is some apparent "stagnation" among the more popular titles, but that is only because the average fighter today has a thousand times more subsystems than they did one or two decades ago, so they mostly just tweak and combine these systems instead of making things that really stand out as NEW and INNOVATIVE.
 But even then, there have always been "different" fighters being released here and there on a more or less constant basis, but they are usually unknown. Many of them are indie, by the way. A good indie, INNOVATIVE fighter would be IaMP. Go play IaMP.

[Dragonmaw]

There are a few fighters that end up playing way different from their spiritual ancestors - the Touhou fighters and Melty Blood spring to mind - but for the most part they function much like shmups. Innovation is a single new mechanic, if that. Oftentimes it's just changing one mechanic (like scoring in shmups, or ways to cancel in fighters).

This is fine! But it's definitely stagnant compared to other genres like TBS, RTS, and FPS. One could argue that they have found their perfect balance point, and others could argue that they lack the innovation other genres are going through.

[Trevor Dunbar]

I think he's referring to the way the colors of the characters and the colors of the background blend a bit due to the character tinting.

I'm complaining about background color saturation fighting for your eye's attention while your trying to keep track of potentially 4 different characters on the screen at once all doing different things.

[shig]

But it's definitely stagnant compared to other genres like TBS, RTS, and FPS.

I don't really follow these genres. how about some examples

[JWK5]

Part of the reason fighting games seem more stagnant is not that many have been released (by comparison) in the last decade. After the 90s they hit a pretty steep decline so the market is not as saturated with fighting games as it is other genres and only a few key franchises remain active, so most of the new fighting games we are getting are just iterations of the same games we've already had.

The other problem you have is that on the surface fighting games seem very similar yet in play they are drastically different. Prime examples of what I mean are Street Fighter and King of Fighters, Samurai Showdown and Last Blade, Bushido Blade and Deadliest Warrior, Tekken and Virtua Fighter (or Dead or Alive), Soul Blade/Calibur and Battle Arena Toshinden, Star Gladiator and Dark Rift, etc.

Looking at screenshots or giving a quick glance at a gameplay video and you can note similarities in many of these pairs but the control schemes, timing, balance, etc. vary greatly. I'd say if anything's become stagnant with the fighting game genre it is the settings and themes which are generally similar and done to death (which makes games like SkullGirls, Guilty Gearssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss /BlazBlue, Super Smash Bros., etc. feel refreshing).

[s0]

[Dragonmaw]

But it's definitely stagnant compared to other genres like TBS, RTS, and FPS.

I don't really follow these genres. how about some examples

Real-time strategy has, since the early days, diverged into a number of subgenres. I generally list three major sub-genres, with more sub-genres underneath:

- Westwood-style (large amounts of units, focus on production, poor unit balance but fun)
- Blizzard-style (small amounts of units, focus on micro, excellent unit balance)
- Relic-style (squads of units, focus on intense micro, lots of extra features like cover, 3D movement, etc)

Some deep sub-genres of RTS: Tower Defense (the most popular one these days), FPSRTS (Nuke Dawn, Natural Selection), RTSRPG (Spellforce series), Grand Strategy (any game by Paradox, seriously any game at all).

FPS is probably the most diverse genre by virtue of being so widespread. You've got involved RPGs (Deus Ex, System Shock), Arena shooters (Quake, Unreal Tournament), "second-person shooters" (Resident Evil 4, Gears of War), your battlefield shooters (Battlefield, Tribes), classic shooters (Serious Sam, Hard Reset), and modern shooters (Call of Duty, Medal of Honor).

TBS is a bit less diverse than RTS or FPS, probably because it's so slow, but the games tend to be very different than each other. Civilization 5 and Heroes of Might and Magic play nothing alike. I suppose SRPGs like FFT and Disgaea also fall into TBS.

---

Comparatively, shmups and fighters haven't really had the same sort of widespread cross-pollination as other genres. Shmups are still pretty much the same, although the rise (again) of the twin-stick shooter has given way to a few unique games, and fighters lost a lot of their diversity in their early days (anyone remember Cyberbots, and how fucking awesome it was?). Not that there's anything wrong with it if you are a fan, just that the genres haven't seen a lot of change in the past two decades compared to others.

[JWK5]

While I'd debate the sentiments on Shmups (Project Silpheed, Panzer Dragoon, Sigma Star, etc.) I think you are undermining the fact that most modern action games have adapted their combat conventions from fighting games (God of War, Devil May Cry, Bayonetta, etc.) and that fighting games themselves have splintered into many styles (Smash Bros. style, 2D Street Fighter style, 3D side-movement, realistic/Boxing/MMA, etc.) as well as being somewhat of an offshoot of Beat 'em Ups (or perhaps it is vice versa).

What your argument is sounding like is that you are more versed in RTS (etc.) than fighting games so you are not able to see the same sort of evolution in the fighting game genre.

[The Monster King]

Guilty Gears/BlazBlue, Super Smash Bros., etc. feel refreshing).

Guilty Gear only has one guilty gear so it there is no "S". It also introduced a bunch of shit like cancels, "special" defense, "GET OFF ME" during-defense generic move, etc and probably popularized airdashes? not sure about that last one.

Go play IaMP.

I tried the weather rhapsody one
i dont think i can play a touhou game
i sort of have to like the character designs to play them


I agree there needs to be more variation in fightgames though! Skullgirls is just a ripoff of Arcana Heart anyway PWNED

the best (indie, but in general) fightgame is 2dbattle.jp MUSCLE FIGHT best game
remember to switch your computer to japanese!!!

[shig]

- Westwood-style (large amounts of units, focus on production, poor unit balance but fun)
- Blizzard-style (small amounts of units, focus on micro, excellent unit balance)
- Relic-style (squads of units, focus on intense micro, lots of extra features like cover, 3D movement, etc)

Doesn't seem very varied at all when you put it like that. Just like, as jwk5 put it, some really different games still seem very similar if you just give them a quick overview.
I'm not really convinced that fighters are less varied. I'm not even sure if there really were more RTS games than fighters being produced recently.

[shig]

Go play IaMP.

I tried the weather rhapsody one
i dont think i can play a touhou game

no dont that game is twenty times worse than IaMP. the only thing that's better about it is that Scarlet Weather Rhapsody has a control scheme that isn't retarded, but that's actually a problem, because by the time you realise this game is awful and much worse than IaMP, you are already used to it, and you will keep fucking up since you will naturally remember the less retarded control scheme. So not only it is worse than IaMP, it actually makes IaMP worse.

i sort of have to like the character designs to play them

I had a problem with this when I started playing, too. I only like Meiling and Suika, and I would only play those two characters, ever. Took me a billion years to try the rest.

the best (indie, but in general) fightgame is 2dbattle.jp MUSCLE FIGHT best game

Ah, man. So THAT's the name of that game.