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[thomasmahler]

Hey Guys,

Kept working on this test a bit.



Here's the build:

http://www.warsoup.com/builds/sein/cavedwarfs.html

Newest devtest: http://www.warsoup.com/builds/sein/inventory.html

It's best played with a Xbox360 Controller:

A - Jump
X - Digging
Y - Toggle Build Mode, then hit X to build stuff
L/R Bumpers: Switch Items in hotbar
Back - Teleport back home

Thought it'd be fun to add the splitscreen component. The second player doesn't have any controller hooks yet, just wanted to see what this would feel like on a HDTV, if players could actually play that way, still read the inventory, etc. and it works pretty damn well.

Also added ladders, so that players can build ladders and climb them. If you build enough ladders, you can actually go into space. I think it'd be awesome if there'd be a moon up there that you could harvest from. 6 and 7 in the hotbar are woodenBlocks and woodenWalls, with which one can build a house. I'm playing around with how to properly implement 0.25 and 0.50 width blocks.

Next few things on the list include the entire inventory system and monsters like in Wonderboy in Monsterworld. I also dabbled around with building and upgrading towers that target enemies, since you could raise crops and stuff and make sure that the enemies that spawn at night aren't trampling all over your stuff.

I'm still using mostly ripped graphics for this experiment, mainly from Survivors of Ragnarok, but I'll slowly start drawing my own stuff now that I know the base is there. I have a newer build in the works right now with lighting and it looks really neat in 1080p.

For the characters, adding some real customizing would be awesome I think. They should just be made up of joints / planes, so that animation only happens to the headJoint, armJoint, bodyJoint, etc. - then if people swap out the arm / body / head texture, they'd get exactly the character they want to play fully animated in the game with all the equipment and stuff still working on top.

Still early in development, but it's already quite fun. Would appreciate some feedback!

[Stib]

Hey thomasmahler,

I thought I'd try out your game and see what's going on. Below are my thoughts while playing. I didn't read your instruction before I started playing btw.

• The cubes seems a little blurry. Like I'm looking at a video of a tv.
• I like the graphics already
• Why does one player have a higher resolution screen?
• I like the lower resolution on the left.
• I'm not sure what the controls are.
• I'm not sure if I should use the mouse. It doesn't seem to do anything
• What square I am selecting is quite clear. I like that
• I figured out jump and dig.
• I like the double jump
• I placed something that looks like a big C with a health bar using the 'T' key I think. I have no idea what it is
• I like the parallax background
• The inventory and controls for placing squares is pretty confusing.
• Torch lighting is nice.
• Parts of the inventory go off the screen at the default resolution
• The follow camera works well. It seems fluid and smooth.
• I don't like having to switch my selection (at the bottom of the screen) to dig
• I love. I love the double jump.

It terms of gameplay, it is fun to jump about and dig. It's a very easy game once you have the controls, and that's a good thing. Still after digging about a bit, I'm not sure what else to do.  Honestly this is the problem I have with building games at times…I want some action and explosions. Oh and turrets sound like fun

I'm sure you have a thousand ideas about were to go with this but I'd like to throw a couple ideas at you. One way you could stand out is to give the player quests. Like:

Dig to the bottom of the Earth and retrieve some magic crystal (without getting eaten). You may be against giving the player tasks in this type of game but I would suggest that you not require the user to do them. Still if the user does do them reward them in some way. This way, people like me, can have fun in the sandbox play AND can at times go questing too. Best of both worlds.

Anyway that's my input. I'd like to see where you go with this game. I think there are many different directions you could go with it and I look forward to seeing the result.

P.S. Can you give me some good sites for Unity 2d development. I haven't found to many.

[thomasmahler]

Hey Stib,

Thanks so much for that detailed feedback, I really appreciate it!

I definitely needed to make a lot of those things clearer. I think most building games don't have any tutorials and it's damn hard to first figure out how to do anything (Minecraft is pretty much unplayable without a Wiki, imo).

Right now, if you use an Xbox Controller, you have to hit Y to enter 'Build Mode'. If you now press X in Build Mode, instead of digging away, you're now placing the cube that's currently active in your hotbar. I think that confused a ton of people. In the newer version, I changed that little highlight if you enter Build Mode and I'll add little messages telling you exactly what's currently selected, etc.

I have to think about what the best button configuration is. Right now I'm going with:

XboxController:

A: Jump
X: Dig / Build / Attack (based on whether you're in Build Mode)
Y: Toggle Build Mode.
L/R Bumpers: Switch between active hotbar items

And most of the stuff should be context sensitive. As in: If you stand in front of a tree and you press X, you automatically use your axe to cut it down. If a solid block is highlighted and you press X, you should automatically use your pickaxe.

In Terraria, I always have to manually switch to the right tool, which is a bit annoying, especially if you use a Controller.

Why does one player have a higher resolution screen?

It was just zoomed in a bit more. You can currently use the mouse scroller to zoom in / out, but the values aren't clamped yet, etc.

I'm not sure what the controls are.

I'm adding an infoBar that should solve the problem.

I'm not sure if I should use the mouse. It doesn't seem to do anything

No mouse. The game will only be played using the keyboard or a controller. I want the controls to be as simple and clear as possible. You have 8 directions, a couple of buttons, go and do your thing.

I placed something that looks like a big C with a health bar using the 'T' key I think.

That's a turret and it's not working yet :D.

The thought process was: What if you're planting seeds or trees and stuff and at night enemies randomly spawn and drain their health if they trample all over them? That's why you'd need to put up turrets, to always make sure that your settlements will be fine, even if mobs are near.

I don't like having to switch my selection (at the bottom of the screen) to dig

Hmm, you don't. But you can't dig in build mode. Would you change that? I'm still not sure about whether to use a 'Build Mode Toggle' or just to use another button for building stuff. On one hand, the controls should be as simple as possible, on the other hand, people seem to be very confused by having to switch into build mode in order to place stuff.

I love. I love the double jump.

Yeah, I think good 2d controls can be just so freaking nice. This here is so not there yet, but with items that give you doubleJump, chargeJump, faster speed, etc., it should feel pretty damn good.

P.S. Can you give me some good sites for Unity 2d development. I haven't found to many.

Hmm, I don't really know any. And I'm not really doing anything special for this game, just constrain the movements to only the X Y axis. Everything else is still a textured plane.

Again, thanks so much for your feedback, really appreciated!

[Stib]

I glanced at the key mapping and wondered if you were using an Xbox controller. I'll hook mine up and give it a try.

[thomasmahler]

Had a bit of time again:

http://www.warsoup.com/builds/sein/cavedwarfs.html

It's still in very rough state, I've been playing around with a ton of stuff. This one should definitely be played with an XBOX CONTROLLER, since I didn't really adjust the controls to the keyboard / mouse properly yet.

Xbox Controls:

X: Harvest
Y: Build Mode Toggle
A: Jump
B: Throw a bomb!

L/R: Switch between hotbar items
Start: Inventory (still borked)

I have a pretty good system for the inventory now, but it's still broken in this build. A ton of stuff in this version is quite raw, but there's also a ton of stuff to see that wasn't in the latest build.

Also had a first go at how lighting could work - still very broken, not happy with it. But underground you now always have to build torches in order to see anything.

The message thing at the top should always update you on what you can interact with, but I haven't fixed it yet.

Oh, and I added rocketBoots - if you now press Down + Jump, you launch yourself even higher. Thinking about going all Steampunk on this. Anyway, I'll update this later with a less buggy version

[Stib]

• The bombs are sick! I love em.
• I don't understand the red square when I press x. If this is just negative feedback I would just go with a sound.
• Blocks I place are quite dark.
• The lighting is really cool but it gets a little confusing about the player. Blocks seem to light up unpredictably. Is there a light source on the player? If so I would remove it. Or give a very clear indicator that the player is holding a light source.
• The lighting underground definitely adds some suspense and looks good
• I still have trouble with the building controls. I blew myself up trying to place a torch
• Still this game works better with a controller. More fun for some reason.
• I like the zombies but the green bars take away any suspense (I know exactly where they are).
• Sometimes I would super jump and I'm not sure why.

When it comes to the controls why not make 'Y' place the block selected on the hot bar? I guess I don't understand why you need to switch into a build mode. You have an indicator to show where you will dig or build. Why not just use one button to build and one to dig?

I hope I don't sound too critical. I think you've added some really cool features and, in my opinion, you are definitely headed in the right direction.

[thomasmahler]

• The bombs are sick! I love em.

Everybody loves Baysplosions!

• I don't understand the red square when I press x. If this is just negative feedback I would just go with a sound.

It's actually just a placeholder for me. It's another object that I use to get the 'attackRadius' - that way I can just adjust the size of this object and actually see what range the weapon has, etc. If you go to one of the skeletons, this is what registers the hit.

• Blocks I place are quite dark.

I have to find a better way of storing the blocks and their attributes.

• The lighting is really cool but it gets a little confusing about the player. Blocks seem to light up unpredictably. Is there a light source on the player? If so I would remove it. Or give a very clear indicator that the player is holding a light source.

The lighting is quite broken right now for a few reasons. I think the player should always at least have a small light radius. Later this could just be expanded with a lamp or something.

• Still this game works better with a controller. More fun for some reason.

It's because I'm always testing it with the controller and I want it to be a small game that I can play with my family just to build stuff in front of the TV I think 4 player splitscreen with looting and building would be super fun.

• I like the zombies but the green bars take away any suspense (I know exactly where they are).

Agreed. Should be fixed in the next build.

• Sometimes I would super jump and I'm not sure why.

I think it'd probably be better if I do this like we do it in WARSOUP - you have to hold down the button to charge energy into the boots, you let go, BOOM, you fly into the air. Right now it's just down + jump, which can become annoying if you want to jump and build something underneath you.

When it comes to the controls why not make 'Y' place the block selected on the hot bar? I guess I don't understand why you need to switch into a build mode. You have an indicator to show where you will dig or build. Why not just use one button to build and one to dig?

I thought it's critical that you'd see the item you'd build and you'd see where you'd place it before you place it... but I kinda get your point. There's already always a highlight that's rendering, showing you at least into which grid you'd build the stuff. I'll go ahead and try what you suggested

I hope I don't sound too critical. I think you've added some really cool features and, in my opinion, you are definitely headed in the right direction.

No, dude, Critique like that keeps me motivated That's exactly why people post their stuff here, it's good stuff, thanks!

[Stib]

I think 4 player splitscreen with looting and building would be super fun.

If you build this 4 player split screen  ... I want it      Is there someway you could make it 2 player split too (for pc or web)?

I tip my hat to your idea sir 

[thomasmahler]

If you build this 4 player split screen   ... I want it     Is there someway you could make it 2 player split too (for pc or web)?

I tip my hat to your idea sir  

Sure, none of that should be a problem. I think you already played the 2player splitscreen version before, didn't you? I thought that was the old version I uploaded here. I love splitscreen and the huge appeal here would be if everybody could play together on one screen in one world, everybody could build their own little town or build a town together, etc.

The big risk was whether or not the inventory / items would still be readable, but it works nicely at 1080p in 4 player split.

I still have to write all the controller hooks, so that all 4 controllers are being supported, but that shouldn't be that big of a deal.

Also, I tried your suggestion:

http://www.warsoup.com/builds/sein/cavedwarfsNoPreview.html

Now you don't have to switch to BuildMode, but Y always builds the currently selected hotbar Item. It's a little bit harder this way to build stuff like ladders, etc., since you don't get the live preview all the time, but which version do you prefer?

[thomasmahler]

Added a little Youtube Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1InxO7sBtIo

And here's the 2Player Splitscreen Test:

http://www.warsoup.com/builds/sein/cavedwarfs2p.html

And a quick 4Player Splitscreen Test:

http://www.warsoup.com/builds/sein/cavedwarfs4p.html

Works better on a big TV rather than a small computer monitor (zooming out using the scroll-wheel helps).

All of this is crazy unoptimized and only really makes sense @1080p on a big screen TV.

[Stib]

Now you don't have to switch to BuildMode, but Y always builds the currently selected hotbar Item. It's a little bit harder this way to build stuff like ladders, etc., since you don't get the live preview all the time, but which version do you prefer?

Yes I definitely like the new setup and I have no problem with ladders personally. It just seems much easier to me. If you really want the preview, I was thinking you could show the block transparently in position on "button-down" and on "button-up" place it in the world. This way the player could hold the button and move about to find the right spot then let go when they find it.

Oh and the thing with the split screen and multiple controllers is I never thought of having multiple joysticks on one computer for some reason. Makes me think, why have an XBox?

[thomasmahler]

Oh and the thing with the split screen and multiple controllers is I never thought of having multiple joysticks on one computer for some reason. Makes me think, why have an XBox?

Because it's simple and stress-free. Most people out there don't even know how to hook their computer up to their TV - And they don't know that they can just use the Xbox Controllers they already have on their PC as well. All you need is that little remote thingy and boom, you're all set.

It's definitely a bit weird that, say, Games like Portal 2 or Call of Duty have Splitscreen on Xbox/PS3 (so the feature has obviously been implemented), but that feature is just being taken away from the PC version for some odd reason. When we first introduced WARSOUP, we got a ton of mails from people being very happy about implementing splitscreen on the PC.

Btw, I kept the system you proposed, so there's no build mode anymore, even in the main build

[Stib]

Btw, I kept the system you proposed, so there's no build mode anymore, even in the main build

That's awesome. I feel like I contributed, if even in some small way   Now I need to buy more Xbox controllers

[thomasmahler]

http://www.warsoup.com/builds/sein/inventory.html

Could need some feedback on something, so I thought I'd post it here. If you press "I" on the Keyboard or Start on the Xbox Controller, you see the inventory. I disabled the standard stuff for now, what I'm concerned with is the layout.

I want to make the crafting much more streamlined than in Minecraft, since I never really liked the idea of putting items into a grid in a certain way, etc. - I'm thinking about using a 'blueprint' system. Enemies randomly drop blueprints that a dwarf can learn and then that item appears in the crafting menu. Simple as that. You still have to have enough resources (that'd be the 4 blocks below the big crafting block), but that's all there is to it.

I also laid out the groundwork for EXP. If you now go into the mine and kill enemies, you'll get more and more exp. If the blue bar above the hotbar is full (which can't be done in this build, since there aren't enough enemies placed), you level up and grow in strength.

The left side is for equipment. Unlike in similar games, I'll make the actual tool switching process automatic. So if you have a pickaxe equipped and you hit a stone, the dwarf will automatically use the pickaxe. If you have an axe equipped and hit a tree, the dwarf will automatically use the axe.

Last and probably least: I dabbled around with a charge bar: So if you hold the jump button, there's a chargeBar that fills up. If it's full and you let go, the dwarf rocket-jumps. I think that same method can be used for shooting stuff, etc.

[Stib]

I really like the layout of the inventory window but it's too dark. It's hard to see mixed with the background. I was looking through the recipes and got to 10 and then it got stuck. Also I entered the inventory once or twice and then I couldn't get back in without a restart of the game.

I didn't like minecraft's craft system either btw. I like your idea better. Now when you pick up a recipe is there a reason it isn't automatically learned? I guess you could trade them maybe. Actually that would be a good system for micro-transactions if you want that kind of thing.

Oooh I like the new super jump system. You know I would make that an ability they need to build/earn. It's very useful.

Lighting seems to be working better too.

It's looking better and better. Oh and I decided to try split screen on my game. You've inspired me

[BattleBeard]

 Hey look! It's Terraria! But it does look cooler, and prettier...hmm. I'll give it a try.

Just got back from playing. I love it.

[thomasmahler]

I really like the layout of the inventory window but it's too dark. It's hard to see mixed with the background. I was looking through the recipes and got to 10 and then it got stuck. Also I entered the inventory once or twice and then I couldn't get back in without a restart of the game.

I fully agree. For now, I was only worried about the whole movement / layout part. As long as people understand right now that those 30 boxes are for the inventory, the 10 at the bottom are what goes into the hotbar, the boxes on the top left are for the character equipment (the 4 on the left are for armor, the 4 on the right are for tools / weapons, the 2 at the bottom for extras) and the top right slots are for crafting it'll be fine

Doing the graphics will be the most fun part for me, so I'm trying to do that last.

Couple questions...Why are the 4 "requirement" boxes empty? Also what are the boxes surrounding the Player display on the left side? Are those for weapons and armor?

It's just not finished yet. Recipes will have up to 4 requirements. The idea is simple: For a Wooden Axe you'll need: 4 Wood, 2 Rope. Once you have learned that recipe, it will show up in that slot. If you take it out of the slot, the 4 Wood and 2 Rope are being drained from your inventory again. Simple as that.

I didn't like minecraft's craft system either btw. I like your idea better. Now when you pick up a recipe is there a reason it isn't automatically learned? I guess you could trade them maybe. Actually that would be a good system for micro-transactions if you want that kind of thing.

That's exactly what I was thinking. If you're deep down in a dungeon and you find a 'Gold Axe' Blueprint, but you already know how to craft a Gold Axe, you can just give it to one of your friends.

Oooh I like the new super jump system. You know I would make that an ability they need to build/earn. It's very useful.

I'm thinking about making the whole thing Steampunk'ish, so that there's a lot of room for crazy inventions. The Superjump could be unlocked with steampowered boots, which would be quite expensive. Compared to Terraria, I'd rather spend a bit more time on the simulation and mining aspect, less time on the combat itself.

Lighting seems to be working better too.

It's looking better and better. Oh and I decided to try split screen on my game. You've inspired me

Haha, awesome! I'd love to see people supporting split screen more and more. It's a pretty tough thing to implement, since you have to lay things out for the start to work with splitscreen, but it just makes things so much more fun.

I just updated the inventory build:

http://www.warsoup.com/builds/sein/inventory.html

Here's a local version (without vsync, should be much smoother):

http://www.warsoup.com/files/BotsBuilds.rar

The character equipment slots are still broken, but now you're able to move items from the inventory area to the hotbar and back. Once they're in the hotbar, you can use them there.

Really glad you like the progress

Hey look! It's Terraria! But it does look cooler, and prettier...hmm. I'll give it a try.

Just got back from playing. I love it.

Glad you liked it. It's absolutely a Minecraft / Terraria clone right now. It just started out as an experiment, but I think it could become a pretty neat game if the right things are being pushed. I want to focus more on the simulation aspect of things, forcing the player to build up his little fortress and defend it and its surroundings.

Btw, for characters, I'll probably go for something like this:

http://kotaku.com/5303468/if-only-these-characters-were-actually-in-scribblenauts

Just a very basic joint structure where I'd supply one set of dwarfs and then everybody could just make their own by switching out the graphics for each body part. Should be super fun.

[thomasmahler]

I just updated the inventory and added a first implementation of the crafting system:

Made a quick Youtube Video about it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uuvhSruqSo

And you can try it out yourself here:

http://www.warsoup.com/builds/sein/cavedwarfs.html

Would love to know what you guys think about the inventory movement. Does it feel right? Too sensitive? Laggy?

Again, Xbox360 Controllers are supported directly in the browser, so don't be afraid to use them!